[Vision2020] Curiosity

Thu Nov 9 10:33:42 PST 2006

Don't you think that if this is the reason for the war ( and I don't) that 
as a nation we should rationally discuss it BEFORE we send our people to die 
and kill the folks who live there?

And should not the proponents of such a plan be able to articulate reasons 
they might succeed?  Wouldn't it be helpful to be able to point to an 
example of such a success that might lead us to believe it is possible?

Sunil

>From: "Pat Kraut" <pkraut at moscow.com>
>To: "vision2020" <vision2020 at moscow.com>
>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Curiosity
>Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2006 10:33:40 -0800
>
>While I can think of many things of the middle east how about if I just say
>'not yet!' But you never know...soon, very soon.
>
>
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Sunil Ramalingam" <sunilramalingam at hotmail.com>
>To: <vision2020 at moscow.com>
>Sent: Thursday, November 09, 2006 10:22 AM
>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Curiosity
>
>
>Pat,
>
>Do you see any similarities in the populations of Japan and Iraq, or 
>Germany
>and Iraq?  Do you see the homogeneity of Japan in the Iraqi population?
>
>I suggest the fact that Iraq is made up of different groups, two of them
>having been mistreated by the third, makes 'creating a democracy' quite
>difficult.
>
>Can you point to anywhere in the Middle East where this has been
>accomplished by an invader?
>
>Sunil
>
>
> >From: "Pat Kraut" <pkraut at moscow.com>
> >To: "vision2020" <vision2020 at moscow.com>
> >Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Curiosity
> >Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2006 10:19:16 -0800
> >
> >I am always amazed at some on this site who have the arrogance to think
> >they know what I or others KNOW or do not know!
> >If you have read any biography of other war time presidents you would 
>know
> >that at the time of the war many people said many things about them as in
> >Lincoln, Roosevelt (both of them), Wilson or Truman. Years later looking 
>at
> >the result of their actions we know that they weren't nearly as wrong as
> >some thought they were. I have a belief that history will be far less 
>kind
> >to the people in the USA now than Bush or anyone on his staff you can
> >believe anything that suits you, for now. So, now those who have been
> >whining, saying and writing many harsh things will have their chance to 
>see
> >what they can do and then history get the opportunity to judge them...so
> >you may believe what you want about any of it...but the future will give 
>us
> >the whole story. Or maybe more of the story or maybe just the other side 
>of
> >the story. You can bet It won't be written by Molly Ivins. Read many 
>things
> >written in the forties that tell us that Japan could not possibly have a
> >democratic government. They got a benevolent dictator (Macarthur) and
> >learned more than anyone imagined they could. What could Iraqi look like
> >with a better government? Germany, Japan, Korea or other places where the
> >people have grabbed the opportunity and learned to do much better by 
>their
> >people are good examples. You seem to be locked into a 1930-40 mentality 
>if
> >I understand your post correctly...but I could be wrong.
> >
> >
> >
> >   ----- Original Message -----
> >   From: Art Deco
> >   To: Vision 2020
> >   Sent: Thursday, November 09, 2006 8:33 AM
> >   Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Curiosity
> >
> >
> >   Pat and others of similar ilk,
> >
> >   The British Philosopher John Locke said something like this:
> >
> >   "In order to accurately compare two objects or ideas, one must have a
> >clear and accurate image/idea of each."
> >
> >   I doubt that you have a clear and accurate idea of what I or most V 
>2020
> >posters think on the question I raised in this thread or the issues
> >attendant.  Hence, it is quite foolish of you to compare anything with my
> >or other poster's ideas.
> >
> >   You also assert:
> >
> >   "The history books have not been written on this subject yet."
> >
> >   Perhaps someone will demonstrate otherwise, but "history books" seldom
> >agree on many things -- for example, works on the Viet Nam War provide a
> >wide range of so-called contradictory facts and opinions.
> >
> >   Hence, there will be no clear and accurate on the subject at issue 
>idea
> >from the "history books."
> >
> >   Hence, you are comparing ideas upon which, most charitably, you have
> >only the most blindingly foggy basis for comparison.
> >
> >   You would gain a great deal more credibility if your future posts were
> >written with John Locke's advice in mind.
> >
> >   Affectionately,
> >
> >   Art Deco (Wayne A. Fox)
> >   deco at moscow.com
> >
> >
> >
> >   ----- Original Message -----
> >   From: Pat Kraut
> >   To: vision2020
> >   Sent: Wednesday, November 08, 2006 9:31 PM
> >   Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Curiosity
> >
> >
> >   The history books have not been written on this subject yet. I would 
>be
> >willing to bet that they do not say what you think they will but we must
> >wait and see.
> >
> >
> >     ----- Original Message -----
> >     From: Art Deco
> >     To: Vision 2020
> >     Sent: Wednesday, November 08, 2006 6:52 PM
> >     Subject: [Vision2020] Curiosity
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >     This is a meaningless but interesting question:
> >
> >     What effect would it have had on the election if Bush had fired
> >Rumsfeld before the election?
> >
> >
> >     W.
> >
> >
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