[Vision2020] Who Has More Influence in the Media? Was: ActiveTroops by and large

[g. crabtree]

That last post got away unedited, unchecked, and ugly (sorry) but I'm 
guessing you get my drift.

gc
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "g. crabtree" <jampot at adelphia.net>
To: "Chasuk" <chasuk at gmail.com>
Cc: <vision2020 at moscow.com>
Sent: Saturday, November 04, 2006 5:34 PM
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Who Has More Influence in the Media? Was: 
ActiveTroops by and large


> The people on the list that I provided in my most recent post are 
> celebrity
> liberals which I chose for their being in 180 degree opposition to the
> conservative radio personalities that you mentioned on your list. The fact
> that you haven't heard of them  really makes no difference. Each and every
> one of them is syndicated in  major media markets. The fact that they have 
> a
> rather anemic audience can be attributed, in my opinion, to the reasons I
> have stated previously. For each and every conservative voice you can come
> up with I dare say I can come up with two liberal ones to counter.
>
> Now, lets put away this petty and largely irrelevant aspect of the
> discussion and cut to the real meat and 'taters. Are you really trying to
> make me and two or three other poor souls who might be following this 
> sorry
> discussion believe   that conservative talk radio + FOX news = the lion's
> share of media influence? That their voice overpowers that of ALL the 
> major
> networks, all the rest of the cable news channels, MTV, VH1, NPR, 
> Pacifica,
> all the rest of the, admittedly, relatively insignificant talk radio 
> market,
> and at a minimum 80% (a very conservative estimate) of all major 
> newspapers
> and news magazines? And I'm the guy who's desperate to score a win? My
> amusement and incredulity know no bounds.
>
> Now, on a more or less unrelated note. When you took your little hiatus 
> and
> achieved remarkable success in creating a rival forum to V2020, I though
> that you offered up as a reason that this list had become a breeding 
> ground
> for incivility and was causing you no small amount of distress. Now that 
> you
> have made your triumphant return, coarseness and contempt has become a
> regular feature in a great many of your posts. Particularly when it come 
> to
> Ms. Kraut but to a lesser extent most anybody who has the temerity to
> disagree with you. (I'm guessing most shrug it off, Pat in particular. She
> strikes me as resilient) None the less, are you, perhaps, past due for
> taking another little time out? Perhaps you could create another internet
> ghost town like the last, a restful place where no one will be able to
> challenge your questionable assertions? A place where you can rant and 
> rail,
> duck and dodge, all without the messy complication of having someone to 
> call
> you on your, shall we charitably say questionable, assertions.
> gc
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Chasuk" <chasuk at gmail.com>
> To: "g. crabtree" <jampot at adelphia.net>
> Cc: <vision2020 at moscow.com>
> Sent: Saturday, November 04, 2006 1:16 PM
> Subject: Re: Who Has More Influence in the Media? Was: Active Troops by 
> and
> large
>
>
>> This is a repost.  It contains the same content,  but with a few typo
>> corrections.
>>
>> *******************************************************************************************
>>
>> I will walk you through the relevant excerpts.  The thread began properly
>> with this post from Chuck Kovis:
>>
>>> You guys control the three branches of the federal goverment.  You
>>> control
>>> the three branches of Idaho government.    You control the media.  And
>>> you
>>> guys still bitch about liberals.  What the hell is the matter?
>>
>> Matt Decker responded:
>>
>>> Us guys control the media? Have you checked your stations lately?
>>
>> The thread meandered for a bit until Art Deco wrote:
>>
>>> CNN's answer to Bill O'Reily is Glenn Beck,  Beck is just as 
>>> conservative
>>> as
>>> O'Reily only not such an asshole about it.
>>
>> Matt responded:
>>
>>> Wow, golly, Gee Art. Your so right, and how could I think that the media
>>> has
>>> no spin. With all of the posts against my opinion, I have to believe 
>>> that
>>> Air America, ABC,NBC,CBS, and CNN are all conservative driven. What on
>>> Darwins green earth was I thinking.
>>
>> The thread is no longer about active troops supporting Bush; the title
>> really should have been changed.  Mea partially culpa.  I rectify that
>> in this post.  The tangent has clearly now devolved/evolved into a
>> discussion of who has more influence in the media, the conservatives
>> or the liberals.
>>
>> I posted a list of conservative celebrities, "celebrities [known] for
>> their impassioned espousal of conservative values, not celebrities who
>> happen to be conservative."
>>
>> Here is the relevant excerpt:
>>
>>> I can name Rush Limbaugh, Ann Coulter, Glenn Beck, Sean Hannity,
>>> Michael Reagan, Gordon Liddy, Bill O'Reilly, Michael Savage, Michael
>>> Medved, and Laura Schlessinger.  I've probably missed a few.  All of
>>> them, celebrity conservatives (.i.e,. celebrities for their
>>> impassioned espousal of conservative values, not celebrities who
>>> happen to be conservative).
>>
>> You post a list entirely dissimilar to mine, because you entirely miss
>> the point.
>>
>> You write:
>>
>>> So instead of "a comparable list full of celebrity liberals who get as
>>> much
>>> media exposure" that you originally asked for, the list must now be
>>> comprised of celebrity liberals who have radio talk shows?
>>
>> Uh, you have it partially right, yes.  The discussion here is about
>> who has more influence in the media, the conservatives or the
>> liberals, which obviously means (as I clarified in my first post) that
>> any examples need to be "celebrities [known] for their impassioned
>> espousal of conservative values [or liberal], not celebrities who
>> happen to be conservative [or liberal]."
>>
>> I don't know who most of these people are:
>>
>> Terry Gross
>> Diane Rehm
>> Al Franken
>> Randi Rhoades
>> Thom Hartmann
>> Rachel Maddow
>> Steve Earle
>> Mike Newcomb
>> Bernie Ward
>> Mike Webb
>> Guy James
>> Laura Flanders
>> Ray Taliaferro
>> Niel Rogers
>> Lynn Cullen
>> Roxanne Walker
>>
>> You then anticipate my very real objection:
>>
>>> I could go on. Now, let me anticipate your next objection. 'Well jeepers
>>> Gary, these folks don't have anything like the audience or the notoriety
>>> of
>>> the people I had on my list.'
>>
>> No shit.  We are talking about which philosophy has the most influence
>> in the media, conservative or liberal, so YES it makes a difference
>> that the folks on your list don't have anything like the audience or
>> the notoriety of the people on mine.
>>
>> I'll spell it out for you:
>>
>> Big Audience + Notoriety == Big Influence
>> Small Audience + Obscurity == Small Influence
>>
>>
>> That's a no-brainer, Gary, and you aren't stupid.  Are you really that
>> desperate to score a win for the conservatives, that you have to
>> resort to intellectual dishonesty?  Or are is Pat Kraut rubbing off on
>> you?
>>
>
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