Error: Re: [Vision2020] Iraq WMD: Scott Ritter, Colin Powell

Sat May 13 19:07:34 PDT 2006

All:

Germany is not a permanent member of the UN Security Council, nor was it on
the list of temporary Security Council members when they voted on the
pending 2003 US invasion of Iraq, as I implied below.

Ted Moffett

On 5/13/06, Ted Moffett <starbliss at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>  Ed et. al.
>
> The first Gulf War was not "preemptive" to prevent an attack against the
> USA by Iraq.  It was to defend Kuwait, who had been invaded by Iraq, and
> when Iraq was repelled, the US did not invade and occupy Iraq.
>
> I'm sure there could be examples found in history of a nation invading and
> occupying another nation based on some sort of "preemptive" rationale.
> Nonetheless, in the context of the modern system of relations between
> nations, the mostly unilateral actions of the USA in invading Iraq based on
> the rationale that an attack against the USA by Iraq was pending (thus a
> "preemptive" war) is regarded by many as setting a dangerous precedent.
>
> As for the UN resolutions Iraq had violated, as Bush pushed to invade Iraq
> in 2003, the UN had not voted to authorize the invasion, with UN Security
> Council members Russia, France, China, and Germany opposing:
>
> http://www.globalpolicy.org/security/issues/iraq/attackindex.htm
>
> *After months of threats and a long military buildup, the United States
> attacked Iraq on Thursday, March 20, 2003. Washington cut short UN arms
> inspections, acting with its military ally, Britain, after a war-sanctioning
> resolution failed by a wide margin to gain support in the UN Security
> Council. The war faces strong opposition from France, Germany, Russia, China
> and the great majority of UN member states as well as world public opinion.
> *
>
> More info:
>
> http://www.worldpress.org/specials/iraq/
> ----------------------
>  Ted Moffett
>
>
>  On 5/12/06, Ed <ecooper at turbonet.com> wrote:
> >
> >  Ted,
> >
> > Seventeen ignored U.N. (a leftists love child) resolutions.... what more
> > reason do we need?
> >
> > Ted says "It's amazing how little on Vison2020 the concept of
> > "preemptive war" used to justify the Iraq invasion is not discussed.  This
> > is a dangerous precedent"
> >
> > I'm not polished in historical facts, but I know that there have been
> > numerous preemptive wars--even several initiated by the United States--most
> > recently (before the current war), the First Gulf War.  No dangerous
> > precedents were set..at least by Bush
> >
> > --et al
> >
> >  ----- Original Message -----
> > *From:* Ted Moffett <starbliss at gmail.com>
> > *To:* rvrcowboy <rvrcowboy at clearwire.net>
> > *Cc:* Vision2020 <vision2020 at moscow.com> ; Sunil Ramalingam<sunilramalingam at hotmail.com>
> > *Sent:* Friday, May 12, 2006 12:51 PM
> > *Subject:* [Vision2020] Iraq WMD: Scott Ritter, Colin Powell
> >
> >
> > Dick et. al.
> >
> > It's amazing how little on Vison2020 the concept of "preemptive war"
> > used to justify the Iraq invasion is not discussed.  This is a dangerous
> > precedent that has now been set that can be used for nations to invade each
> > other based solely on the possibility that they might be attacked: just
> > manufacture some credible appearing intelligence of a threat...Iraq had not
> > attacked the USA, nor was there any credible evidence that Iraq was going
> > to.  If we invaded to stop human rights abuses, why not now invade in the
> > Sudan/Darfur?  But anyway, the argument we invaded Iraq because of human
> > rights abuses was not the primary argument used by the Bush administration
> > before the invasion: it was Iraq WMD presenting an immanent threat to the
> > USA.
> >
> > Dick, maybe you'd respect the opinions of an actual Iraq weapons
> > inspector?  And also consider what Bush's former Secretary of State Colin
> > Powell more recently has to say about his presentation before the UN about
> > Iraq WMD?
> >
> > War is not an endeavor to jump into on questionable intelligence.  When
> > one of the primary weapons inspectors who worked in Iraq is raising warning
> > flags before the US Iraq invasion that the claims of Iraq WMDs made by the
> > USA are very questionable, why was there an aggressive push for an invasion
> > with the repeated warning from Bush and Condi Rice of a pending "mushroom
> > cloud" over America?  A "mushroom cloud" from nonexistent Iraq nuclear
> > weapons?
> >
> > Former Marine intelligence operative and Iraq weapons inspector Scott
> > Ritter is a credible source who was raising doubts about Iraq WMD before the
> > US invasion:
> >
> > http://mailman.fsr.com/pipermail/vision2020/2006-April/028827.html
> >
> > And read Colin Powell's comments about his "disappointment" regarding US
> > intelligence failures that led him to present false information before the
> > UN on Iraq WMD:
> >
> > http://mailman.fsr.com/pipermail/vision2020/2006-April/028812.html
> >
> > Ted Moffett
> >
> >  On 5/11/06, rvrcowboy < rvrcowboy at clearwire.net> wrote:
> >
> > > Sunil,
> >
> > I have read the cite you gave about the U.N. Inspectors.  I have also
> > read
> > many others, some agreeing with you and some not.  The point being that
> > having inspectors in Iraq is not the same as those inspectors being
> > allowed
> > to inspect.  It is easy to pick just one cite and base your whole
> > opinion
> > set on it without taking into account that nearly all news sources today
> > are
> > not fair and balanced on any topic.  Picking one that supports your own
> > personal views without researching others that do not just isn't
> > honest.  To
> > be honest with you, I do not, at this time, believe the inspectors were
> > being allowed to do their job, even though they were allowed to be in
> > country.
> >
> > As for why we went to Iraq in the first place.  You know, as well as I,
> > we
> > could argue that forever.  I do believe there was intelligence, right or
> >
> > wrong, indicating Saddam had WMD.  Even Saddam appeared to give the
> > impression he did, perhaps just to keep his enemies at bay, who
> > knows?  I do
> > believe Iraq, under Saddam, was a state sponsor of terrorism.  I also
> > believe that because of our involvement in Iraq, we most likely have not
> >
> > experienced another 9/11 situation here in our own country.
> >
> > I believe we are still there because the Iraqi military is not yet ready
> > to
> > defend the new government and its people.  Again, this is a topic we
> > could
> > argue for a long time but that is what I believe to be the main
> > reason.  Why
> > do you think we are?
> >
> > I do not know if we were 100% justified in the Iraqi invasion or not.
> > Perhaps no one will ever know.  I do not, however, believe there were
> > secret
> > agendas and hidden motives behind it.  For example, all the libs were
> > screaming it was just for oil, well, where the hell is the oil?  We
> > could
> > certainly use some of it.
> >
> > Bottom line is that I do not feel guilty because we invaded Iraq.  I
> > believe
> > Saddam could have prevented it if he had chosen too do so.  I also do
> > not
> > discount all the human suffering and torture under his regime.  When we
> > add
> > up the Iraqi death tolls, we should ask ourselves who is inflicting them
> > and
> > how many people were dying annually under Saddam's regime.
> >
> > Sometimes good men are compelled to do the right thing.  Also, good men,
> >
> > like all men, sometimes make mistakes.  Still, all in all, I believe we
> > are
> > on the right track despite all the hatred from the left trying to spread
> > quilt on Americans for trying to do the right thing.
> >
> > That is my opinion.  You are welcome to yours but I will never
> > understand
> > why people hate their own President more than the henious dictators of
> > countries who kill their own people without remorse.
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Dick S.
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Sunil Ramalingam" < sunilramalingam at hotmail.com>
> > To: <vision2020 at moscow.com>
> > Sent: Thursday, May 11, 2006 2:38 PM
> > Subject: RE: [Vision2020] When good men do nothing...
> >
> >
> > > Why did we go there, Dick?  Why are we still there?  And what about
> > Bush's
> > > statements about the inspectors?
> > >
> > > Sunil
> > >
> > >
> > > >From: "rvrcowboy" < rvrcowboy at clearwire.net>
> > > >To: "Vision2020" < vision2020 at moscow.com>
> > > >Subject: [Vision2020] When good men do nothing...
> > > >Date: Thu, 11 May 2006 13:48:44 -0700
> > > >
> > > >Neatly tucked at the end of every Saundra Lund tirade is this quote
> > by
> > > >Edmund Burke:
> > > >"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good people
> > to
> > do
> > > >nothing."
> > > >- Edmund Burke
> > > >
> > > >I think the Kurds, along with many others, in Iraq would agree
> > > >wholeheartedly with this statement.  If we pull out now and go back
> > to
> > > >doing "nothing" evil will once again openly triumph in Iraq.  Don't
> > you
> > > >think so Saundra?
> > > >
> > > >Dick S.
> > >
> > >
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> > >
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> >
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> >  ------------------------------
> >
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