[Vision2020] Iraq WMD: Scott Ritter, Colin Powell

Sat May 13 18:56:45 PDT 2006

Ed et. al.

The first Gulf War was not "preemptive" to prevent an attack against the USA
by Iraq.  It was to defend Kuwait, who had been invaded by Iraq, and when
Iraq was repelled, the US did not invade and occupy Iraq.

I'm sure there could be examples found in history of a nation invading and
occupying another nation based on some sort of "preemptive" rationale.
Nonetheless, in the context of the modern system of relations between
nations, the mostly unilateral actions of the USA in invading Iraq based on
the rationale that an attack against the USA by Iraq was pending (thus a
"preemptive" war) is regarded by many as setting a dangerous precedent.

As for the UN resolutions Iraq had violated, as Bush pushed to invade Iraq
in 2003, the UN had not voted to authorize the invasion, with UN Security
Council members Russia, France, China, and Germany opposing:

http://www.globalpolicy.org/security/issues/iraq/attackindex.htm

*After months of threats and a long military buildup, the United States
attacked Iraq on Thursday, March 20, 2003. Washington cut short UN arms
inspections, acting with its military ally, Britain, after a war-sanctioning
resolution failed by a wide margin to gain support in the UN Security
Council. The war faces strong opposition from France, Germany, Russia, China
and the great majority of UN member states as well as world public opinion.
*

More info:

http://www.worldpress.org/specials/iraq/
----------------------
Ted Moffett

On 5/12/06, Ed <ecooper at turbonet.com> wrote:
>
>  Ted,
>
> Seventeen ignored U.N. (a leftists love child) resolutions.... what more
> reason do we need?
>
> Ted says "It's amazing how little on Vison2020 the concept of "preemptive
> war" used to justify the Iraq invasion is not discussed.  This is a
> dangerous precedent"
>
> I'm not polished in historical facts, but I know that there have been
> numerous preemptive wars--even several initiated by the United States--most
> recently (before the current war), the First Gulf War.  No dangerous
> precedents were set..at least by Bush
>
> --et al
>
>  ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* Ted Moffett <starbliss at gmail.com>
> *To:* rvrcowboy <rvrcowboy at clearwire.net>
> *Cc:* Vision2020 <vision2020 at moscow.com> ; Sunil Ramalingam<sunilramalingam at hotmail.com>
> *Sent:* Friday, May 12, 2006 12:51 PM
> *Subject:* [Vision2020] Iraq WMD: Scott Ritter, Colin Powell
>
>
> Dick et. al.
>
> It's amazing how little on Vison2020 the concept of "preemptive war" used
> to justify the Iraq invasion is not discussed.  This is a dangerous
> precedent that has now been set that can be used for nations to invade each
> other based solely on the possibility that they might be attacked: just
> manufacture some credible appearing intelligence of a threat...Iraq had not
> attacked the USA, nor was there any credible evidence that Iraq was going
> to.  If we invaded to stop human rights abuses, why not now invade in the
> Sudan/Darfur?  But anyway, the argument we invaded Iraq because of human
> rights abuses was not the primary argument used by the Bush administration
> before the invasion: it was Iraq WMD presenting an immanent threat to the
> USA.
>
> Dick, maybe you'd respect the opinions of an actual Iraq weapons
> inspector?  And also consider what Bush's former Secretary of State Colin
> Powell more recently has to say about his presentation before the UN about
> Iraq WMD?
>
> War is not an endeavor to jump into on questionable intelligence.  When
> one of the primary weapons inspectors who worked in Iraq is raising warning
> flags before the US Iraq invasion that the claims of Iraq WMDs made by the
> USA are very questionable, why was there an aggressive push for an invasion
> with the repeated warning from Bush and Condi Rice of a pending "mushroom
> cloud" over America?  A "mushroom cloud" from nonexistent Iraq nuclear
> weapons?
>
> Former Marine intelligence operative and Iraq weapons inspector Scott
> Ritter is a credible source who was raising doubts about Iraq WMD before the
> US invasion:
>
> http://mailman.fsr.com/pipermail/vision2020/2006-April/028827.html
>
> And read Colin Powell's comments about his "disappointment" regarding US
> intelligence failures that led him to present false information before the
> UN on Iraq WMD:
>
> http://mailman.fsr.com/pipermail/vision2020/2006-April/028812.html
>
> Ted Moffett
>
>  On 5/11/06, rvrcowboy <rvrcowboy at clearwire.net> wrote:
>
> > Sunil,
>
> I have read the cite you gave about the U.N. Inspectors.  I have also read
> many others, some agreeing with you and some not.  The point being that
> having inspectors in Iraq is not the same as those inspectors being
> allowed
> to inspect.  It is easy to pick just one cite and base your whole opinion
> set on it without taking into account that nearly all news sources today
> are
> not fair and balanced on any topic.  Picking one that supports your own
> personal views without researching others that do not just isn't
> honest.  To
> be honest with you, I do not, at this time, believe the inspectors were
> being allowed to do their job, even though they were allowed to be in
> country.
>
> As for why we went to Iraq in the first place.  You know, as well as I, we
> could argue that forever.  I do believe there was intelligence, right or
> wrong, indicating Saddam had WMD.  Even Saddam appeared to give the
> impression he did, perhaps just to keep his enemies at bay, who knows?  I
> do
> believe Iraq, under Saddam, was a state sponsor of terrorism.  I also
> believe that because of our involvement in Iraq, we most likely have not
> experienced another 9/11 situation here in our own country.
>
> I believe we are still there because the Iraqi military is not yet ready
> to
> defend the new government and its people.  Again, this is a topic we could
> argue for a long time but that is what I believe to be the main
> reason.  Why
> do you think we are?
>
> I do not know if we were 100% justified in the Iraqi invasion or not.
> Perhaps no one will ever know.  I do not, however, believe there were
> secret
> agendas and hidden motives behind it.  For example, all the libs were
> screaming it was just for oil, well, where the hell is the oil?  We could
> certainly use some of it.
>
> Bottom line is that I do not feel guilty because we invaded Iraq.  I
> believe
> Saddam could have prevented it if he had chosen too do so.  I also do not
> discount all the human suffering and torture under his regime.  When we
> add
> up the Iraqi death tolls, we should ask ourselves who is inflicting them
> and
> how many people were dying annually under Saddam's regime.
>
> Sometimes good men are compelled to do the right thing.  Also, good men,
> like all men, sometimes make mistakes.  Still, all in all, I believe we
> are
> on the right track despite all the hatred from the left trying to spread
> quilt on Americans for trying to do the right thing.
>
> That is my opinion.  You are welcome to yours but I will never understand
> why people hate their own President more than the henious dictators of
> countries who kill their own people without remorse.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Dick S.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Sunil Ramalingam" < sunilramalingam at hotmail.com>
> To: <vision2020 at moscow.com>
> Sent: Thursday, May 11, 2006 2:38 PM
> Subject: RE: [Vision2020] When good men do nothing...
>
>
> > Why did we go there, Dick?  Why are we still there?  And what about
> Bush's
> > statements about the inspectors?
> >
> > Sunil
> >
> >
> > >From: "rvrcowboy" < rvrcowboy at clearwire.net>
> > >To: "Vision2020" <vision2020 at moscow.com>
> > >Subject: [Vision2020] When good men do nothing...
> > >Date: Thu, 11 May 2006 13:48:44 -0700
> > >
> > >Neatly tucked at the end of every Saundra Lund tirade is this quote by
> > >Edmund Burke:
> > >"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good people to
> do
> > >nothing."
> > >- Edmund Burke
> > >
> > >I think the Kurds, along with many others, in Iraq would agree
> > >wholeheartedly with this statement.  If we pull out now and go back to
> > >doing "nothing" evil will once again openly triumph in Iraq.  Don't you
> > >think so Saundra?
> > >
> > >Dick S.
> >
> >
> > >_____________________________________________________
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> >
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