[Vision2020] Why Go After Them?

[Saundra Lund]

(Again, my apologies in advance if this shows up twice.  I originally sent
it directly to Mr. Falen as well as to V2020, but it seems to have
disappeared yet again into cyberspace.)

Hi Mr. Falen:

Straight from the horse's keyboard:
"Since we're in the middle of redefining "marriage", why go after this
group?"

The answer remains the same:  the sexual abuse of children and adolescents
is illegal, and we have a legal obligation to "go after" a group that
actively practices and advocates such abuse.  It really is a no brainer.

No matter how shrill Courtney or Swine or anyone else gets, the issue of gay
marriage or civil union HAS NOTHING WHATSOEVER TO DO with the sexual abuse
of minors.  Nothing.  Period.

And I personally find it beneath contempt that some are trying to confuse
the issue with hysteria as Courtney et al are trying to do.


Saundra Lund
Moscow, ID

The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good people to do
nothing.
- Edmund Burke

***** Original material contained herein is Copyright 2006, Saundra Lund.
Do not copy, forward, excerpt, or reproduce outside the Vision 2020 forum
without the express written permission of the author.*****

-----Original Message-----
From: vision2020-bounces at moscow.com [mailto:vision2020-bounces at moscow.com]
On Behalf Of lfalen
Sent: Thursday, May 11, 2006 9:38 AM
To: J Ford; vision2020 at moscow.com
Subject: [Spam] Re: [Spam] [Vision2020] Why Go After Them?

j
Your comments about Mr Jeffs are all valid. However you are wrong about
Dale. He never condoned it . He is as opposed to it as you are. Reread his
blogs.

Roger
-----Original message-----
From: "J Ford" privatejf32 at hotmail.com
Date: Thu, 11 May 2006 01:18:43 -0700
To: vision2020 at moscow.com
Subject: [Spam] Re: [Spam] [Vision2020] Why Go After Them?

> To clarify a couple of things, if I might...
> 
> Mr. Jeffs, a NON-pastorized "preacher" of his word (NOT God's), has 
> arranged "marriages" between CHILDREN as young as 12 and adults as old 
> as 48 - this is not love or any form of God's work, it is sexual 
> assault, rape, child molestation, the damaging permanently of a 
> child's life and mind, a SIN in any language, religion, faith, law, 
> country, etc.  Mr. Ed or Dale or CD or any other "pervert" that allows 
> this type of behavior as being "normal" and preferable belongs in the 
> same cell as Mr. Jeffs will find himself in, for the same length of 
> time - hopefully, that being the rest of their horrible, miserable, lousy
lives.
> 
> Mr. Jeffs has also, in his own voice, been heard to say that anyone 
> with dark skin is loathsome, uneducated, unworthy, vile, not to be 
> dealt with in any other manner but through a death blow, etc.  If you 
> watch the reports being done on him and his groups, you will notice 
> NOT A SINGLE NON-WHITE PERSON is among them.  NOT ONE!  (sounds like 
> your kinda group Mr. Ed?)
> 
> The very fact that they have "compounds" with armed guards and that 
> this person is hiding from the FBI and other law enforcement agents 
> speaks volumes and volumes of his knowing that his activities are 
> wrong - he is HIDING...get it?!  He knows he is wrong and that not 
> even God will protect him no matter how often or loudly he proclaims His
name.
> 
> Anyone remember Waco?  How about Jonestown?
> 
> Why, in all that is Holy, would ANYone support that type of group?
> 
> 
> J  :]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> >From: "keely emerinemix" <kjajmix1 at msn.com>
> >To: ecooper at turbonet.com, privatejf32 at hotmail.com, 
> >vision2020 at moscow.com
> >Subject: Re: [Spam] [Vision2020] Why Go After Them?
> >Date: Wed, 10 May 2006 16:14:35 -0700
> >
> >Earlier this week, I apologized to Ed for having said that the 
> >"light" he shone forth was, unlike the light of Christ to which he 
> >was referring, simply garish, obnoxious, and without value (I was 
> >much more colorful, but there's no need to repeat it).  I had second 
> >thoughts and apologized, thinking I was judgmental, harsh, and unduly
condemning.
> >
> >Never mind.
> >
> >Based on his comments below, which are another foaming-at-the-mouth 
> >rant against homosexuality, I think I was right.  He is all heat, not 
> >light, and whatever flashes of brilliance he shows are not 
> >intellectual in nature but simply flashes of momentary ocular
interruption.
> >
> >That Ed finds homosexual behavior sinful is one thing, although I 
> >hope he would at least appeal to his understanding of the Bible and 
> >not to his own disgust over what he perceives as icky -- we're in 
> >trouble if Ed's standards become the norm.  And while I have said 
> >before that Christians who hold to a conservative reading of 
> >Scripture regarding homosexuality are not automatically better 
> >Christians, more Christlike and mature, than those who don't, I will 
> >acknowledge that most conservative Christians see the behavior 
> >condemned in the Bible.  But while there is legitimate dispute over 
> >prooftexts that appear to be ironclad to some and not so to others, 
> >there is NO dispute over the entirety of the OT and NT text, which 
> >calls for love as the highest ideal.  Not heterosexuality, not 
> >conservatism, not fundamentalism, not even disgust at sin.  And so, 
> >on that basis, I can readily and unapologetically conclude that Ed is 
> >not shining forth the light of his Savior, but a cheap and entirely
offensive counterfeit that does no one any good -- and certainly doesn't
glorify God.
> >
> >More immediately bizarre, of course, is that he considers the 
> >polygamy of Colorado City to be less evil than even committed, loving 
> >homosexual relationships.  Remember what Ed apparently can't grasp:  
> >that the Warren Jeffs brand of polygamy, and much if not most other 
> >examples of quasi-Mormon polygamy, are not examples of sexually 
> >healthy, free, autonomous and of-age women simply being satisfied by 
> >one loving, albeit fickle, stud.  These "women" are often young 
> >teenagers, and none of them has the security of a loving community 
> >around them; the self-worth and confidence to refuse sexual attention 
> >or childbearing; the autonomy to turn down "marriages" to men who are 
> >strangers to them, or, worse, family members; or the economic and 
> >social viability to escape.  Girls are raped, boys are cast out as 
> >"competition" to the horny perverts who mask as God's chosen leaders 
> >of the home, church, and society, and women are consigned to a form 
> >of sexual slavery that is no less horrific because "God" is invoked in
its practice.
> >
> >Ed should be ashamed that he finds the practice of homosexuality, 
> >even between two adults who love each other, more repugnant than the 
> >above.  On the other hand, patriarchy and homophobia are two 
> >monuments to an idol located south of a man's heart, and protecting 
> >that idol evidently involves more bigotry than most people can possibly
muster.
> >
> >keely
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >From: "Ed" <ecooper at turbonet.com>
> >To: "J Ford" <privatejf32 at hotmail.com>, <vision2020 at moscow.com>
> >Subject: Re: [Spam] [Vision2020] Why Go After Them?
> >Date: Wed, 10 May 2006 08:22:16 -0700
> >
> >Hey J:
> >
> >Since my name was used derogatorily in your losing exchange with 
> >Dale, I feel compelled to add my two cents. Although, I'm not a 
> >polygamist, I see it's fruits (no pun intended) far less damaging 
> >than those of the abnormal, twisted, despicable perversion of
homosexuality...
> >
> >   ----- Original Message -----
> >   From: J Ford
> >   To: vision2020 at moscow.com
> >   Sent: Tuesday, May 09, 2006 9:12 PM
> >   Subject: [Spam] [Vision2020] Why Go After Them?
> >
> >
> >   Dale C:
> >
> >   Criminal Probe of Church
> >
> >   The Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints 
> >(FLDS) is one
> >   of a number of polygamist sects in and near Utah. Followers believe
the
> >   Mormons went the wrong direction when it abandoned polygamy more than
a
> >   century ago as Utah was seeking statehood.
> >
> >   Since we're in the middle of redefining "marriage", why go after 
> >this group?
> >
> >   Me:
> >
> >   ARE YOU FRIGGING KIDDING???!!!  This group is so abusing its members,
> >   women/children mostly, and you have to ask why they are being 
> >looked into
> >   and sought after?
> >
> >   CD Witmer says:
> >
> >   Why go after this group? Well, apart from the fact that they are
> >   polygamists, they have the "look and feel" of WASPs and therefore 
> >don't get
> >   protected status. Now if they were promoting multiple-partner
HOMOSEXUAL
> >   marriage, you can bet they would be protected.
> >
> >   Me:
> >
> >   Geez, dude - what world do you live in?  You can't possibly be this
sick
> >   that you believe the crap you spew?!  Don't tell me - you're one 
> >of those
> >   "we whites have to stick together or get lost in the crowd" kinda
> >   guys....like Mr. Ed?
> >
> >   Anyone else see a parallel of Colorado City to the Moscow that 
> >Dougie-Boy is
> >   working to create?  He may not be talking multiple marriages at one
time
> >   (yet) but he certainly has the land development , "own(ing of) 
> >businesses
> >   and property," the harassment of former members, etc. and other
illegal
> >   activities part down.  Only a matter of time....if Moscow just 
> >closes it's
> >   eyes long enough.
> >
> >   J  :|