[Vision2020] Council Must Reject Rezone

Wed May 10 10:03:15 PDT 2006

For those who are interested, the Retail Demand 
analysis prepared by CLUE Group, DC and presented 
to city council on 5/1 can be downloaded at

http://www.nosuperwalmart.com

I'd be interested in hearing comments on the 
report. A summary might read that we 
(Whitman/Latah) are an isolated retail market 
area and as such have only so many shopping 
dollars to spend. Adding retail space shifts 
where/how those dollars are spent, but does not 
create additional retail dollars. Forecasting 10 
years out, the two categories which need more 
space are furniture/home furnishings and 
gasoline/automotive supplies/repairs and that 
could likely be accommodated with either existing 
vacant spaces or lands already zoned for  motor 
business.

Full disclosure: the report was commissioned by 
nosuperwalmart. However, UI economist Steve 
Petersen, testifying in support of the rezone, 
came to the same factual determinations as to 
available retail $$ in the area, but a different 
conclusion (we need to compete directly with 
Pullman to keep their dollars that are currently 
being spent in Moscow - about $100 million 
annually -  by building more retail space). As 
I've posted earlier, his conclusion is based on 
assuming several underlying restraints on 
development in Whitman County have remained in 
place, which in fact, they haven't.

Thoughts?

Mark Solomon

At 8:08 AM -0700 5/10/06, joekc at adelphia.net wrote:
>Apologies to Nils but I wanted to partake in the endless rant one more time!
>
>I am not against either WinCo or the existing 
>Wal-mart and for the reason you note. They save 
>money and it is plausible that people will spend 
>that saved money elsewhere. With a Super 
>Wal-Mart, things are very different. Why go 
>anywhere else?
>
>There is nothing "condescending" about this 
>observation either. It is based on my own 
>personal experience. When I go shopping with my 
>kid I tend not to stop at 3 or 4 different 
>places if everything I need and want is at one 
>place.
>
>Nor should we talk about disposable income in 
>the abstract, as you suggest. In the abstract, 
>asprin is good but if you take a whole bottle of 
>it, it will kill you. I feel the same way about 
>low-cost and convenience. Both are good in the 
>abstract but too much of both -- in the form of 
>a single Super WalMart -- will kill the local 
>economy.
>
>Lastly, I don't know what planet you are from 
>but on my planet philosophy professors do not 
>make a lot of money! I have shopped at WalMart, 
>I continue to shop at WinCo, and I don't blame 
>anyone for shopping at either.
>
>--
>Joe Campbell
>
>---- deaconjames at verizon.net wrote:
>
>=============
>Yes, I often consider myself Reagan. Why?
>
>You say, "There is no reason to think that the 
>'savings' will eventually trickle down to us." 
>Are you expecting a check to show up in your 
>mailbox? When you say this, you sound a lot like 
>you are saying, "I'm looking out for me and 
>mine; screw those poor people who don't have a 
>professor's salary."
>
>Let's think about this in the abstract, 
>completely aside from WalMart. Is increased 
>disposable income a) good for the local economy, 
>b) bad for the local economy, or c) doesn't have 
>any effect on the local economy? If a), then we 
>can discuss whether or not WalMart would 
>increase disposable income. If b) or c), then we 
>can discuss the merits of your thinking on this 
>point.
>
>And by the way, my wife shops for us at Walmart 
>and Winco, and the money that we save shopping 
>there allows us to spend money at other stores 
>around town that we otherwise wouldn't be able 
>to. You sound so condescending when you say, 
>"Why not suppose that they will just spend the 
>increased income at Walmart, where they are 
>going to shop anyway."
>
>People who shop at Walmart are humans, Joe, not 
>mindless, Walmart-adoring drones. They are 
>trying to save some money; that's all.
>
>Take care,
>
>Deacon
>
>From: joekc at adelphia.net
>Date: Tue May 09 17:54:37 CDT 2006
>To: deaconjames at verizon.net
>Cc: vision2020 at moscow.com
>Subject: RE: [Vision2020] Council Must Reject Rezone
>
>Are you Reagan?
>--
>Joe Campbell
>
>---- deaconjames at verizon.net wrote:
>
>=============
>Are you serious?
>
>From: joekc at adelphia.net
>Date: Tue May 09 17:18:07 CDT 2006
>To: deaconjames at verizon.net
>Cc: vision2020 at moscow.com
>Subject: RE: [Vision2020] Council Must Reject Rezone
>
>Why not suppose that they will just spend the 
>increased income at Walmart, where they are 
>going to shop anyway. There is no reason to 
>think that the 'savings' will eventually trickle 
>down to us.
>
>--
>Joe Campbell
>
>---- deaconjames at verizon.net wrote:
>
>=============
>Let's put in terms of groceries, then: $.30 can 
>of tuna vs. $.50 can of tuna. It's a better 
>comparison anyway, because both are the same 
>product and both will be consumed and forgotten.
>
>Bottom line: increased disposable income, which 
>leads to increased prosperity in the region.
>
>Take care,
>
>Deacon
>
>From: Tom Hansen <thansen at moscow.com>
>Date: Tue May 09 14:46:02 CDT 2006
>To: deaconjames at verizon.net, vision2020 at moscow.com
>Subject: RE: [Vision2020] Council Must Reject Rezone
>
>Deacon James stated:
>
>"If someone spends $10 on a toaster instead of $20, they have $10 extra
>dollars to spend on something else they otherwise would not have been able
>to purchase."
>
>Yet, if that same "someone" found it necessary to purchase that same
>ten-dollar toaster three times each year (due to lesser quality), while
>his/her neighbor "someone else" purchased the twenty-dollar toaster that
>lasted twelve months, someone else would "have $10 extra dollars to spend on
>something else they otherwise would not have been able to purchase."
>
>Something else to think about,
>
>Tom Hansen
>Moscow, Idaho
>
>"The Pessimist complains about the wind, the Optimist expects it to change
>and the REALIST adjusts his sails."
>
>- Unknown
>
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