[Vision2020] illegals (was Loonball)

[keely emerinemix]

Yes, Dan was joking.  Yes, Tom seems to have overreacted.  And yes, Matt, 
you appear to be grossly uninformed about "illegals" who "soak up" benefits. 
  Since by "illegals" I'm guessing you don't mean "U.S.-born people of Anglo 
origin who commit illegal acts," it's reasonable to conclude that you're 
afraid of Mexican-born people who cross the border without proper papers.

While living in Western Washington, I was privileged to work for 12 years 
with recently arrived Mexican immigrants to the U.S.  Some were here with 
legal papers.  Most were not.  But I don't know of anyone who didn't work, 
didn't try to raise a family, and didn't try to fit in.  Some made use of 
government services; all paid taxes into the system that provides those 
services.

No one came to "soak up" benefits, Matt.  They came to work.  I knew of 
families who were provided beat up old travel trailers to live in -- with 
water provided by a hose through the window -- and then had "rent" of nearly 
half their wages deducted for the privilege of living like that.  Choice?  
Nope.  Some dairy owners want their employees on site and considered it a 
requirement.   Mom, Dad and three kids in an 18-foot travel trailer on the 
grounds of a working dairy farm . . . sounds like a hell of a deal to me.  
Others trained their new workers for two or three weeks without pay, 
claiming that U.S. law didn't require "paid training."  Quite a few pocketed 
FICA and worker's comp deductions, leaving employees without coverage in 
case of an accident, and others refused to provide even simple amenities 
like toilets and fresh drinking water for employees.  Landlords rented one- 
and two-room apartments with standing water, cockroaches, and mold-covered 
walls to groups of men and families, then denied them their deposits for 
things like leaving the keys on the window sill instead of the table.

I used to eat pollo en mole every Wednesday with a family living in an old 
travel trailer, I've stood ankle-deep in cow manure pleading for someone's 
check, I've helped bail water out of the sink and bathtub of apartments I 
wouldn't keep my dog in, and I've seen children playing in fields of 
effluent and living in trailers so damp that floors were reinforced with 
cement bricks from underneath.  My ministry was a one-woman affair with more 
poverty and degradation than I suspect you've ever seen, Matt, but I'm not 
the hero in any of this.  I'm just a witness to the struggles of those who 
heroically risk life and limb to make a life for themselves in the United 
States, and I'm a far better person than I would have been for having been 
able to help them once they arrived.  I'll let God decide whether their 
coming here was a sin or not, but I feel pretty comfortable saying that 
you're on shaky ground assuming that all who do come, come to just bleed you 
dry.

keely

From: "Matt Decker" <mattd2107 at hotmail.com>
To: thansen at moscow.com, vision2020 at moscow.com
Subject: RE: [Vision2020] Just Another Loonball
Date: Sat, 04 Mar 2006 18:27:43 -0800


Why Tom I believe Dan is serious. He doesn't want 28 million raving 
Californians up here, and who does. Tom you cant stand a super wal mart, 
what on gods green earth would you do with a bunch of illegals soaking up 
all of your VA benefits?

Come on Tom, Dan was joking. What you said was below the belt.

We miss ya Phil
Matt
>From: "Tom Hansen" <thansen at moscow.com>
>To: "Moscow Vision 2020" <vision2020 at moscow.com>
>Subject: [Vision2020] Just Another Loonball
>Date: Sat, 4 Mar 2006 18:04:20 -0800
>
>Dan Carscallen stated in response to "Questionith all seriousness) at:
>
>http://mailman.fsr.com/pipermail/vision2020/2006-March/026594.html
>
>"Dangit, I hope I didn't talk any nutjob loonball Californians into
>movin' up here!"
>
>Thank you, Dan, for so easily illustrating why you are a two-time loser in
>elections.
>
>My Suggestion:  When it comes to serious issues, be serious.
>
>Tom Hansen
>Just Another Serious California Loonball
>
>"The Pessimist complains about the wind, the Optimist expects it to change
>and the REALIST adjusts his sails."
>- Unknown
>
>
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