[Vision2020] Wal-Mart: Replies to Donovan and Crabtree

[keely emerinemix]

Visionaires,

If Joe Campbell doesn't stop with the reasoned, well-stated arguments he's 
tossed off just this afternoon (see former posts), he's going to ruin Vision 
2020s reputation among the conservatives.

(Please?)

Great points, Joe.

keely

From: joekc at adelphia.net
To: vision2020 at moscow.com
Subject: [Vision2020] Wal-Mart: Replies to Donovan and Crabtree
Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2006 17:49:59 -0500

Donovan and Mr. Crabtree,

I’m sorry for the combined post but I have only one more post to use 
today.

Both of you used an interesting fallacy in response to a previous post of 
mine on the proposed Super Wal-Mart.

Mr. Crabtree wrote: “Your argument with regard to aesthetics doesn't fly 
all that well either. … You didn’t pipe up about any of [previous] 
developments, why the concern now? Sounds more like a case of not ‘in my 
backyard’ syndrome than any real desire for architectural grace.”

Donovan wrote: “Can you please explain to me how it is that you can buy 
plastics and gasoline from countries like Iran, Iraq, Kuwait, Saudi Arabia 
etc., that have the worst human rights record in the world, yet at the same 
time scorn Wal-Mart for buying products from other businesses that 
manufacture their goods in China?”

In response, here is a story. For 15 weeks, children threw eggs at the house 
of Mr. Crabtree-Arnold. One day, as he was walking to his car, Mr. 
Crabtree-Arnold noticed young Tommy, throwing an egg at his house. Mr. 
Crabtree-Arnold scolded Tommy, at which point Tommy replied: “For 15 weeks 
kids have been throwing eggs at your house. You never said anything against 
them, so why pick on me?”

Does that fact that Mr. Crabtree-Arnold never said anything prior to this 
day mean that he has no reason to scold Tommy?

Here are some comments to other points that you’ve made:

1/ Donovan: “If you believe that countries with bad human rights records 
should be denied  jobs, and believe the US kills innocents overseas, then 
why are you not  for exporting US jobs to countries with better human rights 
records then our own?”

Reply: I love our country and I want to make it the best that it can be.

2/ Crabtree: “I would suggest that if you stand in the way of a place to 
shop being built you are most assuredly dictating, in an albeit small way, 
where folks can and can't shop.”

Reply: You are wrong. There is a difference between dictating what people do 
and using one’s words to influence what people do. The latter respects 
that people have the capacities to reason and make decisions for themselves. 
The former does not.

Furthermore, by attempting to keep a Super Wal-Mart from coming into Moscow, 
I am not “dictating where people can shop.” We have a Wal-Mart and there 
is a Super Wal-Mart scheduled for Pullman. People will still be able to shop 
at Wal-Mart.

3/ Crabtree: “… having a Wal Mart on the east side of town would seem to 
be in keeping with the ‘smart growth’ mantra I keep hearing you MCA 
types carry on about. Isn't the idea to have shopping be within walking 
distance of residential development?”

Reply: You must be joking. Do you think that Super Wal-Mart would plan for a 
gas station on location if the intent were only to increase the level of 
walking customers? If this reply were correct, it would make a mockery of 
the economic arguments in support of having a Super Wal-Mart in town, which 
only work if customers beyond the east side of Moscow visit the store often. 
Part of my concern with having a Super Wal-Mart nearby is that I already 
have a difficult time walking or riding my bike to different places in 
Moscow as it is. A Super Wal-Mart on Route 8 will only make matters worse.

4/ Donovan: “Just because a place offers low prices does not mean that 
they are exploiting others.”

Reply: I didn’t suggest this argument. I said that Wal-Mart happened to 
offer low prices because they exploit others. I’m not claiming that this 
is true because of some general rule. Crabtree asks that I provide evidence 
for exploitation in the form of some pro-Wal-Mart website and, well, I guess 
I can’t do that. Clearly there is a problem here since both of you seem to 
think that any evidence in support of my claim is prejudiced since it is 
…. well, evidence in support of something you don’t believe.

I did give just one small example of exploitation. Part of the reason that 
Wal-Mart offers low prices is that many of their products are manufactured 
in countries that fail to recognize the concept of a human right. Point out 
that other stores are guilty of the same and I’ll point you to the Tommy 
story above. I’m not perfect but at least I can try to stand up to 
principles in which I truly believe as best as I can. I don’t condemn 
people who think otherwise. I do wonder why people worry so much about 
whether we recite the pledge of allegiance instead of just living in 
accordance with the thoughts and sentiments it conveys: “liberty and 
justice for all.”

5/ “P.S. Tony, sorry if I'm stepping on your toes a bit here but when it 
comes to our resident junior philosopher's musings there's plenty 
‘wrongness’ for ten folks to respond.”

Reply: I’m so glad you included this PS. Otherwise it would be difficult 
to refer to you as “the guy who is unable to say anything to me without 
insulting me.”

Until tomorrow!

Best, Joe


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