[Vision2020] Christ Church and freedom of religion

Wed Jun 28 16:02:48 PDT 2006

You are so wrong, grasshopper.

Being a "pastor" (non-ordained at that) does not mean you are THE only one 
that can perform the communion.  Jesus did NOT say "Do this in rememberance 
of me - when and only when in a church or a service."  He clearly stated 
that we should do this (give thanks for Him and God) and the Blessings we 
receive and understand why/how we received it - through HIS sacrifice, not 
some guy who decides he wants to run a business he calls a "church".

Communion is NOT just the Blood and Body of Christ, but the COMMUNION with 
God that we are supposed to do every day - you don't need someone to do that 
for you or even with you.  NOwhere in the Bible does it state that if you 
pray or have communion without being in a church, you have committed a sin.  
NOR does it say you HAVE TO BE AROUND OTHERS to pray or be with God and if 
you don't you have committed a sin.

Paul says that we should be around others that support our beliefs in order 
to gain strength - but he does NOT say it would be a sin if we don't.

Again, even given your taking Jesus' words out of context, NOwhere is He 
saying only a "pastor" or priest is the only person that can give you 
communion.  NOwhere does He say "YOU MUST DO THIS IN A CHURCH SURROUNDED BY 
PEOPLE DOING THE SAME THING."  Jesus prayed by HIMSELF in the garden, spent 
40 days/night BY HIMSELF in the desert - was He not with God all those 
times?  Was He not in "communion" with God during those times? Or was He 
committing sin too simply becasue He was not in a church surrounded by other 
people?

I have seen people in the kirker that are in "Sunday worship" after they 
have sinned - Sitler and Jamin being the most noteable examples....but there 
are plenty of others as you, DJ, know very well.  Just being in a church 
surrounded by others does not mean you are not sinning.  Neither you nor 
Dougie have any place putting the "title" of sinner on someone just because 
you don't see them in church on Sunday.

Mayhap people don't go to church for the very reason of the Sitlers and the 
Jamins being there.  Does tend to put a bad taste in the mouth when you 
continue to see people there that you KNOW are doing horrible acts of 
violance taking the "communion" you seem to feel is necessary to be absolved 
of sin.  Didn't work for them, did it?

BTW, which came first - Saturday as the seventh day or Sunday?  And by which 
calendar are you baseing that on?  What about DLS or winter/spring solstice 
that changes the days and dates?  God does not command us to worship on any 
day but the seventh - but He NEVER says what day that is.  For all we know 
it could be Wednesday that is the seventh day.  Nor does He command us to do 
so in a church.  People have called Nature God's ultimate church for 
hundreds of years.  So if you want to worship with a moose or in a building 
- that's between you and God.  No one but He can say if you have committed a 
sin by not being in a man-constrained system of worship.  Mayhap you should 
leave the judging up to Him?  His job anyway.

J  :]

>From: "Taro Tanaka" <taro_tanaka at hotmail.com>
>To: vision2020 at moscow.com
>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Christ Church and freedom of religion
>Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2006 10:25:35 +0000
>
>J Ford writes:
>
>[[ "failure to attend congregational worship at church when one is able to 
>is a sin." Says who? Where in the Bible does it say this? Several times it 
>says Jesus attended temple "as was His practice" but it NEVER says "so as 
>to not appear to be committing a sin."
>
>Man's invention - man's corruption. Don't put it on God what YOU want to 
>have happen. ]]
>
>J, a person who refuses to participate in congregational worship, when he 
>or she is able to, in effect excommunicates himself.
>
>Paul says to the Corinthian church, "The cup of blessing which we bless, is 
>it not the communion of the blood of Messiah? The bread which we break, is 
>it not the communion of the body of Messiah?"
>
>Of course, the church's celebration of communion as an integral part of 
>worship was in direct response to Jesus' command to do so. (Luke 22:19,  1 
>Cor. 11:24-25)
>
>Even a clergyman cannot conduct the Lord's Supper outside of congregational 
>worship. A pastor cannot invite a friend over to his house for a meal, and 
>as they sit down to eat, the pastor cannot offer bread to his friend as the 
>body of Messiah, or wine as Messiah's blood. The only place anyone has 
>ever, or can ever, partake of the elements of the Eucharist is in the 
>context of congregational worship.
>
>So what happens to people who deliberately absent themselves from 
>congregational worship? They are cut off from communion -- effectively 
>excommunicated.
>
>"Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, 
>and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.Whoso eateth my flesh, and 
>drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last 
>day.For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed. He that 
>eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, dwelleth in me, and I in him. As 
>the living Father hath sent me, and I live by the Father: so he that eateth 
>me, even he shall live by me." (John 6)
>
>Note Jesus' words from John 6 very carefully. If one fails to partake of 
>the Eucharist, there is no life in that person. And the Eucharist is only 
>available in congregational worship.
>
>J, Christianity is not gnosticism. It is more than mere intellectual assent 
>to certain timeless, placeless, disembodied concepts. It involves the 
>entire body, including eating and drinking. Thus participation in the 
>congregational worship by the body of believers in the local church, which 
>consummates with the acts of chewing and swallowing Messiah's flesh, and 
>drinking His blood, is essential to the life of the Christian. Fail to do 
>that, and one excommunicates one's self. One doesn't cease to be a 
>Christian so much as bring the curses of the covenant upon one's self. Of 
>course, suicide by self-excommunication, like any other sin, is something 
>of which we can repent. A person who repents of this sin can be forgiven 
>and restored to full fellowship in the body of Christ, in which there is 
>life.
>
>J, I hope this has been of some profit to you and any others who may read 
>it.
>
>-- Princess Sushitushi
>
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