[Vision2020] Christ Church and freedom of religion

Sun Jun 25 06:19:40 PDT 2006

I was going to respond to Gary's post but I think that the response is here!

Thanks, J!

--
Joe Campbell

---- J Ford <privatejf32 at hotmail.com> wrote: 

=============
"Does the leadership of Christ Church respect freedom of religion? "

No...they believe and push Dougie's brand of religion, which is very 
contrary to most people's understanding of a Christian or Christ-like 
attitude or affect.

"Are they pushing some kind of agenda to make over Moscow into a 
Christian-only area?"

Even while still a member, I remember being told and hearing that by the 
elders and Dougies himself, that their "agenda that wasn't" was one of a 
political nature.  Several of the men were encouraged/ordered to serve in 
public offices, such as Todd Flack on the P&Z and Paul Kimmell on the Latach 
County Commission.  All the while, Doug repeatedly stated to the rest of the 
town that he had no political agenda; until recently, that is.  The 
commissioning of GMA has finally put that to rest.

Again, the "make over" is one in which Dougie is leader and his way is the 
white/male only way that is allowed.

"The submission of women topic doesn't bother me because the women of that 
church don't seem to have any problems with it."

That is probably one of the most heart-felt mistaken statements I've heard.  
It is not that the women don't have a problem with the submission issue, 
it's that they have no outlet to voice any objections they may have.  Only a 
few of them have been ALLOWED to speak up and then only for a period of time 
set by the men.  If you will notice, it is only the "men" of that church 
that have been talking non-stop nonsense about anything that has no real 
substance and certainly no real connection to reality or to what subject 
matter has been raised or is being discussed.

"I don't even really care about the whole Sitler thing because there are so 
many inconsistencies between both versions of events that I'll probably 
never know what really happened or who
should have done what when."

This is another very sad statement from you....you SHOULD care, especially 
if you have children in this area that may have had contact with him or 
could have in the future when he is "returned to society after serving his 
'time.'"

The problem with "more power to them" is that they will snap that up and run 
with it to the detriment of others.  They absolutely should not be granted 
special privileges nor have special treatment by the City just because they 
are Christ Church.  But that apparently is exactly what happens at times.

No one, to my knowledge, is saying "Get out of town" solely based on their 
theology - what we HAVE said is "Stop trying to change this into your town 
and learn to be a part of THIS community."  As has been pointed out, many 
different religions are in Moscow...only ONE of them is demanding changes 
and demanding special treatment - Christ Church.

Honestly, I have never in my life seen a leader of an organization make the 
kinds of snide, rude, calculated comments and name callings that Dougie 
does.  He does not deserve the title of "Pastor" because he has not earned 
it - either by training, acts or attitude.  He is shameful and an 
embarrassment to those in who are legitimately in that field of God's work.

J  :]

>From: Paul Rumelhart <godshatter at yahoo.com>
>To: Vision2020 <vision2020 at moscow.com>
>Subject: [Vision2020] Christ Church and freedom of religion
>Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2006 23:00:08 -0700
>
>I am new here, so forgive my questions.  I've read a bit on this list of 
>the back-and-forth postings concerning this one church and it's left me 
>confused.  I've read the article in the Blot about the church, as well.  I 
>should also mention that one of my closest friends is a member of the 
>church, even though we rarely if ever agree on theology.
>
>What it all boils down to for me is this one simple question:  Does the 
>leadership of Christ Church respect freedom of religion?  Are they pushing 
>some kind of agenda to make over Moscow into a Christian-only area?
>
>The rest of the discussions don't interest me, for the most part.  My 
>theological views are pretty much orthogonal to those of Christ Church 
>members as I understand them, so it's pointless for me to debate about 
>them.  I could care less if they serve alcohol at Trinity Fest, I'll leave 
>that to the people whose job it is to make those decisions.  The submission 
>of women topic doesn't bother me because the women of that church don't 
>seem to have any problems with it.  I don't even really care about the 
>whole Sitler thing because there are so many inconsistencies between both 
>versions of events that I'll probably never know what really happened or 
>who should have done what when.
>
>If we freedom-loving people of Moscow practice what we preach, then why be 
>up in arms about their views?  Why worry if they are successful?  More 
>power to them.
>
>However, if they are truly trying to stifle freedom of religion in others 
>here in the community then I will be worried.
>
>Members of Christ Church: Do you wish to rework Moscow into a Christ 
>Church-derived paradise?  Or do you believe fully in Free Will?
>
>Opponents of Christ Church: Do you believe that Freedom of Religion trumps 
>your own personal views of their theology?  Are you willing to live and let 
>live if they truly wish not to push their views on others?
>
>Paul
>
>If I'm being presumptious here, I'm sorry.  I came here hoping for reasoned 
>debate and see mostly mud-slinging and name-calling by both sides.
>
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