[Vision2020] Echoes From the Whinery

Fri Jul 28 19:40:07 PDT 2006

Donovan,

It is hard for me to determine what has actually happened to Wilson. I am interested in knowing the basis of your claims below, for instance? Did you see nails in Wilson's drive way? Did you help him change some of his tires?

I don't know of anyone who would cheer violent acts toward another individual, whether or not they agreed with the individuals religious and political views. Vandalism is always wrong, as far as I can see.

But what proof do we have that violence or vandalism has actually been done to Wilson? Furthermore, what proof do we have that Wilson's political critics have had anything to do with it, even if it did happen? 

I know of at least two persons, both critics of Wilson, who have had dog feces speared on the inside (in one case) and outside (in another case) of their cars. If I think that Wilson had something to do with this -- perhaps only indirectly, since he suggests that violent behavior toward gays and lesbians is justified -- does that give me the right to say in public that he is responsible for it? I don't think so.

We need to get a better grip about what's going on here. You can start by telling me exactly how Wilson has been harmed and what EVIDENCE there is to believe that such harm has occurred.

Best, Joe

---- Donovan Arnold <donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com> wrote: 

=============
Saundra,

 You are right, I should not have use the word slash,  it is confusing to people like you. To me, it is that same thing to  have some one slash your tires as it is to stick a nail in it if it  causes you to have to replace the tire. 

 I think if Wilson's  driveway was littered with nails you would have a point. But having  four flats on four different vehicle is a bit more than suspicious to  me. Combined with trespassing incidents, harassment over the Internet,  tampering with his personal property, and his mailbox, it is smart  thing to get it on record. To ridicule someone for making a police  report to protect their family and property I think is seriously wrong.

  As to making accusations against others, I think Wilson made it clear  that he had no evidence. But considering the history of one of the  individuals, and his suspicions, I think he is correct in giving the  police ALL the information he can give them to help them do their job,  rather than saying nothing and leaving 25,000 residents of Moscow and  the area to equally consideration. 

 I also find it horrible  that you guys are cheering this destructive behavior. If one person can  get away with vandalizing and harassing any member of the community  because of their religious, political, or person beliefs, the next  vandalize might target you or me for ours. 

  I have not heard you or your buddies ever condemn this action, just jeer it on. Sad. 

  Best,

  _DJA

Saundra Lund <sslund at adelphia.net> wrote:  Donovan wrote:
"Are you suggesting that if someone complains about 4 of their tires being
slashed . . . "

Huh???  Who had their tires slashed?  Donovan, I think you are trying to
make a mountain out of a molehill.

Based on the documents I read, there was NO allegation of tires being
slashed but rather that ordinary road hazards (a screw and nail were
specified) seemed to be happening at an unusual rate.  That is a far, far
different thing than having tires slashed:  when tires are *slashed,*
there's no question of intent, but picking up common road hazards is a
fairly common occurrence (talk to the tire folks about that).

I will easily admit that if Wilson's self-reported estimates of the
frequency is accurate -- and it should have been easy enough for him to
prove with records of the repairs -- it *does* sound suspicious to me unless
the rigs have been driving through construction areas a lot.

Quite a few years ago, my landlord was having work done on the his duplexes.
The workers were less than careful with the materials, and six or seven of
us and had flat tires -- I personally had THREE in the space of a couple of
weeks because my duplex was at the dead-end by the dumpster.  The culprits?
Screws and nails  :-)  That's when I found out that screws and nails are
considered road hazards not covered by tire warranties  :-(

However, you're not doing anything helpful, Donovan, by inflating flat tires
to slashed tires  :-(

JMHO,
Saundra Lund
Moscow, ID

The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good people to do
nothing.
- Edmund Burke

***** Original material contained herein is Copyright 2006, Saundra Lund.
Do not copy, forward, excerpt, or reproduce outside the Vision 2020 forum
without the express written permission of the author.*****

-----Original Message-----
From: vision2020-bounces at moscow.com [mailto:vision2020-bounces at moscow.com]
On Behalf Of Donovan Arnold
Sent: Thursday, July 27, 2006 8:22 PM
To: Tom Hansen; Joan Opyr; 'Moscow Vision 2020'
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Echoes From the Whinery

"Although Doug Wilson's statement can be easily reduced to one word
(WAAAH!), a friend of mine described it more appropriately when comparing it
to little Johnny at Rosauers tugging on his mommy's dress complaining that
somebody made a face at him."--Tom Hansen

Tom,

Are you suggesting that if someone complains about 4 of their tires being
slashed, that they are just a whiny baby? 

You must be twice the man as most people, because most people would report
that incident to the police. They wouldn't just shrug their shoulders and
laugh at the "teenage prank".
I would be making as much noise as I could, otherwise it would keep
happening.

For some that seems so CONCERNED about the LAW, I would think you would
support the reporting, pursuit and arrest, and forced repayment from the
individual(s) responsible.

To be honest, I think you and the gal that did this are the only ones on
this list that think reporting  four slashed tires to the police is a bad
idea and just whining.

I think you are letting Vandal Spirit spread to far outside the ball court.

Best, 

_DJA

Tom Hansen  wrote:

 Greetings Visionaires -

 The website concerning the police report filed by Doug Wilson on
July 18,
 2006 has been updated to include the handwritten statement signed by
Doug
 Wilson.

 Although Doug Wilson's statement can be easily reduced to one word
(WAAAH!),
 a friend of mine described it more appropriately when comparing it
to little
 Johnny at Rosauers tugging on his mommy's dress complaining that
somebody
 made a face at him.

 But then, why not let you fine people reach your own conclusions:

 http://www.tomandrodna.com/Wilsonistas/Police_Report_071805.htm

 There are 20,000 stories in the naked city. This isn't any of them.

 Seeya round town, Moscow.

 Tom Hansen
 Moscow, Idaho

 *******************************************************

 "If the law is to be respected it must first be respectable. There
will
 never be respect for our laws without enforcement, equal
enforcement."

 - dick Sherwin (May 3, 2006)

 *******************************************************

 =====================================================
 List services made available by First Step Internet, 
 serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994. 
 http://www.fsr.net 
 mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
 ====================================================

________________________________

Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Make PC-to-Phone Calls

t=39663/*http://voice.yahoo.com>  to the US (and 30+ countries) for 2¢/min
or less.

---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
 Everyone is raving about the  all-new Yahoo! Mail Beta.