[Vision2020] Property tax cut?
Craine Kit
kcraine at verizon.net
Mon Jul 24 13:18:16 PDT 2006
While Moscow may not be subject to an unreported crime "wave," bad
things, such as accidents and crimes, happen. Gradually, they are
happening more often. For some reason, these incidents rarely become
public knowledge, unless one happens to see one or know someone who
was involved. For instance, there was a burglar haunting my
neighborhood a while back. I learned of this through random
conversations with the neighbors. The problem didn't become public
until half-a-dozen places or so had been hit. Then, the public
statements were so general it was hard to tell if the announcement
was about "our" guy.
Of course, we have laws and police for more than handling crimes. One
of their other important functions is protecting public safety. A
prime example of that is enforcing the parking codes--something that
is dependent on officers having time to patrol neighborhoods between
calls. I know many people argue that it is a "waste" of police time
to enforce such "petty" laws in the first place, but the fact is that
people who disobey those laws impose risk on others. How many times
have each of you had to do a punch-and-pray away from a stop sign
because your view of oncoming traffic was blocked by an illegally
parked car? How many accidents happen as a result? How much time do
police officers spend investigating and cleaning up the aftermath?
I grew up in a Moscow that had officers routinely driving the
streets, keeping an eye out for trouble, and taking care of what they
found. The only time you locked your doors was when you left town.
Now, Moscow has grown so fast officers run from call to call, rarely
having time to patrol. We have to lock our when we're in the back
yard. Although you'll never hear why in the local press, the reason
is the rise in "petty" crimes--like the purse that was stolen from
the house next door on a broiling summer day when the front door was
open, the screen door unhooked, and the owner in back watering the
flowers.
Moscow is growing rapidly--both in people and the area it covers.
That growth creates a need for more worker-bees on the streets. That
includes employees such as snowplow drivers, garbage collectors, and
police officers. If we want to stay a nice, small, town we need to
pay to put get those workers out there.
Kit Craine
On Jul 24, 2006, at 6:51 AM, g. crabtree wrote:
> Why is it that you believe that the city needs more police? Is
> there a crime
> wave that has been going on that I am unaware of? I think that we
> have a
> very competent force under able leadership and while I don't doubt
> that they
> would enjoy more compensation, I think that they are doing a perfectly
> adequate job with the personnel that they have currently. Aside
> from the
> increase in vandalism (that you insist isn't happening) can you
> provide any
> instance or example of crime in Moscow which is going on unchecked or
> unresolved?
>
> gc
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "J Ford" <privatejf32 at hotmail.com>
> To: <vision2020 at moscow.com>
> Sent: Monday, July 24, 2006 12:56 AM
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Property tax cut?
>
>
>> Not going to rise to the bait...
>>
>> However, in THIS e-mail you did answer some of the question that I
>> posed
>> to
>> some degree.
>>
>> I do NOT agree that we need four of those positions you sited. I
>> believe
>> we
>> need more police personnel and we need them to be allowed their
>> union. We
>> also need them to have INCREASED benefits and a better pay that would
>> allow
>> them to stay in the community as cops, if that is what they be
>> wanting.
>> Funny how you all can agree on the tax increase but not the Union
>> because
>> you see THAT as a threat to the budget. Makes NO sense at all.
>>
>> There is no way you can tell this community that 100-150 vehicles
>> are in
>> need of work AT THE SAME TIME, so the increase of personnel for
>> that shop
>> is
>> a mystery. Especially given that the vehicles are routinely
>> shifted out
>> of
>> commission with new ones to take their place.
>>
>> As far as the secretary is concerned - what office would that
>> personnel be
>> placed? And why?
>>
>> You say that you "think that all (the positions) can be justified"
>> yet you
>> don't do so.
>>
>> Your explanation of the 3% tax increase is silly, to say the
>> least. So
>> the
>> City is not asking for the other tax increase we property owners
>> will be
>> experiencing, it is just ADDING to those that the County and/or
>> State is
>> considering. And we are to say this is ok - why? The fees this city
>> charges for sewer, trash, water, tv cable, electric, etc. are always
>> increasing and now you want to add this tax increase. Not seeing
>> sound
>> reasoning - nope, not seeing it at all.
>>
>> In light of the rest of the government agencies and Governor in
>> this state
>> looking at REDUCING the taxes, how can the City justify increasing
>> them?
>>
>> Again, I would challenge the MAYOR to justify the increase in City
>> personnel
>> positions and taxes CLEARLY. She has a forum to do so - let's see
>> HER do
>> it.
>>
>>
>> J :]
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> From: "John Dickinson" <johnd at moscow.com>
>>> To: "'J Ford'" <privatejf32 at hotmail.com>
>>> Subject: RE: [Vision2020] Property tax cut?
>>> Date: Sun, 23 Jul 2006 20:37:42 -0700
>>>
>>> I thought I did answer your direct question, J Ford. I can see
>>> how some
>>> V2020 discussion get off topic because now we will spend a little
>>> while
>>> talking about your literal question and your implied question.
>>> And how
>>> close
>>> I got to either.
>>>
>>> So your actual question about the possible affect of the property
>>> tax
>>> session on the city budget is that it won't have an effect. I do
>>> believe I
>>> answered that before. If you are asking if it was a good idea to
>>> add nine
>>> new people, then the answer that I would give you is this. The mayor
>>> proposed five new positions, not nine. At the budget hearing this
>>> week I
>>> think that a valid case was made for each of the new positions. I
>>> can't
>>> recall all of them at this time, but I will try (the preliminary
>>> budget
>>> books are being recycled and so I don't have my budget book with
>>> its notes
>>> to go from). One new police person, half paid by the university.
>>> A person
>>> to
>>> do fire and electrical inspections. A new secretary within city
>>> hall. A
>>> new
>>> person at the city shop to work on the city vehicles (currently
>>> two people
>>> keep the 100-150 city vehicles running). And I can't recall the last
>>> position. I think that all can be justified as being needed. The
>>> five
>>> positions requested was pared down by the mayor from the initial
>>> requests
>>> by
>>> the city department heads.
>>>
>>> If I missed your implied question again, let me know. It could be
>>> that you
>>> are asking whether the city needs to ask for the 3% increase in
>>> property
>>> taxes. I don't believe that there is a property tax revolt
>>> because of a 3%
>>> increase. The revolt comes from the 100% increases in assessed
>>> value in
>>> places like McCall and Sandpoint. The revolt comes from assessed
>>> values
>>> increasing in other locations by an amount that approximates the
>>> increase
>>> in
>>> home owners exemption. Questions about those issues are beyond
>>> the city
>>> and
>>> need to be asked elsewhere.
>>>
>>> John
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: vision2020-bounces at moscow.com [mailto:vision2020-
>>> bounces at moscow.com]
>>> On Behalf Of J Ford
>>> Sent: Sunday, July 23, 2006 5:23 PM
>>> To: vision2020 at moscow.com
>>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Property tax cut?
>>>
>>> Care to address the question I asked? Or ask Mayor Cheney to,
>>> since its
>>> her
>>>
>>> puppy? The open letter to Mayor Cheney is STILL unanswered as well.
>>>
>>> Mayor?.....................
>>>
>>> J :]
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> From: "John Dickinson" <johnd at moscow.com>
>>>> To: "'J Ford'" <privatejf32 at hotmail.com>,<vision2020 at moscow.com>
>>>> Subject: RE: [Vision2020] Property tax cut?
>>>> Date: Sun, 23 Jul 2006 16:34:05 -0700
>>>>
>>>> Hi-
>>>>
>>>> Property taxes fund schools, cities, and a few other places.
>>>> About 2/3
>>> goes
>>>> to schools and about 1/3 goes to the cities. The "property tax
>>>> relief"
>>>> being discussed is talking about the school portion and will likely
>>>> leave
>>>> the cities portion untouched.
>>>>
>>>> Reading the piece from Elliot Werk points out why most people
>>>> distrust
>>>> their
>>>> government. I am always disappointed when politicians give a public
>>>> description of their actions that hide the real self-serving
>>>> motives.
>>>> One
>>>> of
>>>> the reasons I ran for city council a couple of years ago was to
>>>> show
>>> people
>>>> that it was possible to run for an office, express a set of beliefs
>>> during
>>>> a
>>>> campaign, and act on those beliefs in an ethical way throughout
>>>> a term
>>>> of
>>>> office. Our state and our country would be so much better served
>>>> if a
>>>> majority of politicians acted in this manner.
>>>>
>>>> Enjoy the summer heat.
>>>> John
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: vision2020-bounces at moscow.com
>>> [mailto:vision2020-bounces at moscow.com]
>>>> On Behalf Of J Ford
>>>> Sent: Sunday, July 23, 2006 12:08 PM
>>>> To: vision2020 at moscow.com
>>>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Property tax cut?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> How does this affect what Mayor Cheney wants to do? Does this
>>>> mean her
>>> 3%
>>>>
>>>> tax hike is out the window followed closely by her 9 new employees?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> J :]
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> From: Ralph Nielsen <nielsen at uidaho.edu>
>>>>
>>>>> To: Vision2020 at moscow.com
>>>>
>>>>> Subject: [Vision2020] Property tax cut?
>>>>
>>>>> Date: Sun, 23 Jul 2006 08:50:26 -0700
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> ELLIOT WERK
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> IDAHO STATE SENATE
>>>>
>>>>> Legislative News
>>>>
>>>>> The Special Interest Session
>>>>
>>>>> July 16,
>>>>
>>>>> 2006
>>>>
>>>>> Volume 1, Number 6
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> In This Issue
>>>>
>>>>> 7 The Special Interest Session Whats in it For You?
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> 7 Town Hall Meeting on the Property Tax Plans July 24th,
>>>>> 6:30 PM
>>>>
>>>>> at Boise Public Library
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Handy Web Links
>>>>
>>>>> My Home Page
>>>>
>>>>> Find out what is happening, what Ive been up to, or fill out my
>>>>
>>>>> latest survey
>>>>
>>>>> Legislative Web Page
>>>>
>>>>> Excellent place to read bills, track legislation, contact
>>>>
>>>>> legislators, and more
>>>>
>>>>> Secretary of State Elections Page
>>>>
>>>>> Look at campaign sunshine reports, lobbyist registration, and more
>>>>
>>>>> Absentee Ballot Request
>>>>
>>>>> Vote by mail, its quick, easy, and convenient
>>>>
>>>>> Contact Me
>>>>
>>>>> http://www.elliotwerk.org
>>>>
>>>>> mailto:elliotwerk at mindspring.com
>>>>
>>>>> Phone: 658-0388
>>>>
>>>>> Legislative Messages: 332-1000
>>>>
>>>>> Snail Mail:
>>>>
>>>>> 6810 Randolph Dr., Boise, ID 83709
>>>>
>>>>> The Special Interest Session Whats in it For You?
>>>>
>>>>> By now many of you have heard talk of a special session of the
>>>>
>>>>> legislature to provide a property tax cut. The Governor has asked
>>>>
>>>>> legislators to hold Friday, August 25, 2006 open in case a special
>>>>
>>>>> session is called.
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Homeowners are rightfully asking for something to be done about
>>>>
>>>>> rapidly escalating property taxes. So, if a special session of the
>>>>
>>>>> legislature is called - whats in it for you the homeowner?
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> To answer that question lets take a look at the tax cut proposal
>>>>
>>>>> that the Governor has laid out (both in his inaugural speech
>>>>> and many
>>>>
>>>>> times since). Then we can talk a bit about how the proposal
>>>>> affects
>>>>
>>>>> homeowners, and then about how the special session will work.
>>>>> Lastly
>>>>
>>>>> I will lay out the recently announced Democratic plan that
>>>>> provides
>>>>
>>>>> 100% of the property tax relief to homeowners without raising the
>>>>
>>>>> sales tax.
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> The Governors Proposal - The proposal removes the school property
>>>>
>>>>> tax levy (known as the M&O - $3 per $1,000 of property value) from
>>>>
>>>>> all types of properties and shifts that cost (about $250
>>>>> million) to
>>>>
>>>>> the sales tax. This would result in a reduction of about 20% in
>>>>
>>>>> property taxes for all classes of properties.
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> That sounds pretty good. Until you look at the details.
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> This proposal was rejected three times by the Senate in the last
>>>>
>>>>> legislative session because it penalizes the people that are
>>>>> asking
>>>>
>>>>> for the tax cut the homeowners - while substantially weakening
>>>>
>>>>> education funding. There is no tax relief for homeowners in this
>>>>
>>>>> plan, just the mirage of relief.
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Let me explain.
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> How the Proposal Affects Homeowners - Property taxes are
>>>>> calculated
>>>>
>>>>> differently for residential property compared to all other
>>>>> types of
>>>>
>>>>> property. While residential property taxes are based on full
>>>>> market
>>>>
>>>>> value (what we can sell our house for on the market) other
>>>>> types of
>>>>
>>>>> property (commercial, industrial, utility, and agricultural) are
>>>>
>>>>> assessed based on income potential. This has led to a dramatic
>>>>
>>>>> difference in property value increases over the last five years
>>>>
>>>>> (really forever).
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> For instance, while agricultural land and utility property
>>>>> taxes have
>>>>
>>>>> actually dropped almost 10% in the last five years, residential
>>>>
>>>>> property taxes have increased by almost 92%.
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> So back to the Governors plan according to Idaho Tax Commission
>>>>
>>>>> figures - removing the M&O from all classes of property gives
>>>>> 60% or
>>>>
>>>>> about $150 million of the tax cut to properties other than owner
>>>>
>>>>> occupied homes (like your home that qualifies for the homeowner
>>>>
>>>>> exemption). That leaves 40% of the cut for you and me.
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> So lets recap, properties that have remained relatively flat or
>>>>> even
>>>>
>>>>> seen a decrease in their property taxes in the last five years
>>>>> will
>>>>
>>>>> get 60% of the tax cut while properties that have seen a 92%
>>>>> increase
>>>>
>>>>> in property taxes get 40%. Seems a bitunfair.
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> And it gets even worse. We, the homeowners, pick up the lions
>>>>> share
>>>>
>>>>> of that $250 million cost since the proposal shifts the school
>>>>> levy
>>>>
>>>>> from property to sales taxes and business is generally exempt from
>>>>
>>>>> paying sales tax (remember all those tax exemptions). If business
>>>>
>>>>> properties are paying part of the school levy today and we
>>>>> shift to a
>>>>
>>>>> tax that they do not pay (and the costs stay the same) then
>>>>
>>>>> homeowners pick up that extra burden. That is how a tax cut
>>>>> becomes a
>>>>
>>>>> tax increase for you the homeowner.
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Another recap 60% of the tax cuts go to special interests that
>>>>> have
>>>>
>>>>> seen no substantial property tax increases over the last five
>>>>> years
>>>>
>>>>> and homeowners see an overall increase in our tax burden as we
>>>>> pick
>>>>
>>>>> up the full cost for school funding.
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> But that is not all. Unfortunately theres more.
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> If you itemize deductions on your federal income taxes you can
>>>>> deduct
>>>>
>>>>> your property taxes from your income. So in reality you pay your
>>>>
>>>>> property taxes with 75 or 80 cent dollars (depending on your tax
>>>>
>>>>> bracket). So not only will homeowners pay for a tax cut for
>>>>> special
>>>>
>>>>> interests, but you also lose the deductibility of that portion of
>>>>
>>>>> your tax burden!
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> That is why the Senate rejected this plan three times during the
>>>>
>>>>> regular session it raises taxes on the people that need the cuts
>>>>
>>>>> the most the homeowners. And it gives a juicy tax cut to property
>>>>
>>>>> classes that have not seen substantial property tax increases!
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> If you dont believe me you can ask Senator Hal Bunderson
>>>>> chairman
>>>>
>>>>> of the Senate Local Government and Taxation committee (you can
>>>>
>>>>> contact him at 888-7156). After weeks of study using Idaho Tax
>>>>
>>>>> Commission figures he led the charge against this plan in the
>>>>> regular
>>>>
>>>>> session and has spoken out repeatedly against it recently in the
>>>>
>>>>> Idaho Statesman.
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> That is why I call the contemplated special legislative session a
>>>>
>>>>> Special Interest session. It will provide tax relief only to the
>>>>
>>>>> special interests not the homeowner.
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> How Will the Special Interest Session Work? As the Governor has
>>>>
>>>>> laid it out, a proposal will be worked out behind closed doors.
>>>>> The
>>>>
>>>>> Governor will line up support for the plan prior to calling the
>>>>
>>>>> Special Interest session - guaranteeing that he has enough
>>>>> votes to
>>>>
>>>>> assure a quick victory. The Special Interest session will be
>>>>> called
>>>>
>>>>> on a Friday (August 25th) where the only proposal considered
>>>>> will be
>>>>
>>>>> his plan. There will be no committee hearings, no public
>>>>> testimony,
>>>>
>>>>> and no other plans considered.
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> The Democratic Plan Property taxes on owner occupied homes have
>>>>
>>>>> increased an average of 92% in the last five years. You need some
>>>>
>>>>> relief. Our plan provides homeowners with 100% of the relief.
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> The plan is simple everyone that qualifies for the homeowner
>>>>
>>>>> exemption is given an additional exemption from the school M&O
>>>>> levy.
>>>>
>>>>> You get a 20% property tax cut and special interests get
>>>>> nothing. No
>>>>
>>>>> shift, no complications. Just tax cuts where they are needed.
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> The cost of our plan is $104 million which can be absorbed by our
>>>>
>>>>> ongoing surplus (we currently have a $200 million fund balance of
>>>>
>>>>> that about $100 million is likely ongoing revenue we can use to
>>>>> fund
>>>>
>>>>> property tax relief).
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Town Hall Meeting on the Property Tax Plans
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> The Ada County Democratic legislators will host a Town Hall
>>>>> Meeting
>>>>
>>>>> at 6:30 PM on Monday, July 24th at the Boise Public Library. The
>>>>
>>>>> purpose of the meeting is to have a public review of both property
>>>>
>>>>> tax plans and provide the opportunity for the public to discuss
>>>>> and
>>>>
>>>>> comment on the plans.
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> We are offering this opportunity to ensure that the public is well
>>>>
>>>>> informed about the property tax plans and the ramifications of
>>>>> each
>>>>
>>>>> plan.
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> I hope to see you all there. You might want to arrive early since
>>>>
>>>>> space is limited and we expect a large crowd.
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> In closing I would ask you to contact your legislators to voice
>>>>> your
>>>>
>>>>> opinion about property tax relief. Do you want to pay for a cut
>>>>> for
>>>>
>>>>> the special interests or would you like targeted relief for
>>>>
>>>>> homeowners. You can contact your legislator by name at http://
>>>>
>>>>> www.legislature.idaho.gov/about/contactbyname.cfm or by
>>>>> district at
>>>>
>>>>> http://www.legislature.idaho.gov/about/contactbydistrict.cfm.
>>>>> You can
>>>>
>>>>> also contact the Governor (after all he is leading the charge) at
>>>>
>>>>> either 334-2100 or via email at http://gov.idaho.gov/ourgov/
>>>>
>>>>> contact.html.
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> =====================================================
>>>>
>>>>> List services made available by First Step Internet,
>>>>
>>>>> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
>>>>
>>>>> http://www.fsr.net
>>>>
>>>>> mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
>>>>
>>>>> ====================================================
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
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>>>>
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>>>
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>>
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>>
>
>
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