[Vision2020] The Great Debate

Fri Jul 14 10:35:07 PDT 2006

Dick,

  You wrote;

  "My problem with the entire homosexual debate is that those who are willing
  participants in homosexual activity are constantly trying to get the rest of
  us to accept their sin.  Living in sin is one issue, attempting to force it
  onto others is quite another.  Wouldn't you agree?"

  Is someone forcing you to engage in homosexual relations? If so, then I  agree you have a legitimate concern. If not, then nobody is forcing you  to do anything.

  You also wrote:

  "I do not want to see my country legalize any sin, homosexuality included."

  I am puzzled. Are you suggesting that it be illegal for me not to love  my neighbor as myself? For it is a great sin not to. And how exactly  would you go about enforcing that I love my neighbor? What about  "worshiping false Gods." That is a sin. Oh, and don't forget coveting  my neighbor's wife, or his property. How is that going to be outlawed?

  "We may have differing views on being a Christian and the teachings of the
  Bible but I invite you to cite one single passage from the Bible, concerning
  homosexuality, that you believe does not speak of it as being wrong or a
  sin."

  I would probably burn any so called bible that mentioned the word  homosexuality. The word "homosexuality" was no coined until nearly  nineteen hundreds years after the death of Christ. I would treat that  so called bible in the same manner as if it mentioned the words,  computer,  airplane, hydrogen balloon, car, nuclear missile, and  television.

  Best,

  _DJA

rvrcowboy <rvrcowboy at clearwire.net> wrote:  Joe,

To the best of my recollection I can not think of the time I have ridiculed
anyone here, or anywhere, "on the basis of their own private sexual
activities."   I am not saying I didn't, some time in the past but if I did
indeed do such a thing, it was wrong and I am sorry.

On the contrary, I have repeadedly stated my position that homosexual
behavior is a Biblical sin, in my opinion.  I do not understand how any
rational person could intrepret any Biblical cite, covering this topic,
differently.  I have also stated, repeatedly, that I do not consider
homosexuality to be of any greater magnitude of sin than many others.

My problem with the entire homosexual debate is that those who are willing
participants in homosexual activity are constantly trying to get the rest of
us to accept their sin.  Living in sin is one issue, attempting to force it
onto others is quite another.  Wouldn't you agree?  I do not want to see my
country legalize any sin, homosexuality included.  To begin with, legalizing
it would not take away the sin, it would only force others to accept it.

For example, NAMBLA members, not all necessarily homosexuals, have tried
numerous times to legislate sexual activity with children as young as eight
years old to be legal.  I believe this is a sin and I do not want to be
forced to accept it as legal anymore than I want to be forced to accept what
I consider to be the sin of homosexual activity as legal.

We may have differing views on being a Christian and the teachings of the
Bible but I invite you to cite one single passage from the Bible, concerning
homosexuality, that you believe does not speak of it as being wrong or a
sin.

I believe, upon the return of Jesus Christ, He will judge all nations on the
basis of how they have accepted sin as legal and normal, among other things.
I also believe He will judge those of us who stood by, saying nothing, and
allowed such sin to be legalized the same as those who had a direct hand in
the act.

I realize many here do not believe in God, or that Jesus will ever return
and that is one thing.  That is their perogative and it is not my place to
condem or speak ill of them because of it.  But for those who claim to be
Christians and believe in these things to advocate for the legalization and
acceptance of any Biblical sin is quite another issue.  It appears to be
quite hypocritical to me but, hen again, I am not a Biblical scholar so
perhaps you can quote that cite from the Bible to me that gives the act of
homosexuality the green light.

Also Joe, please bear in mind that I am not trying to tell anyone how to
live their own life.  I am merely stating my own opinon on the subject and I
am perfectly willing to debate it without casting judgment and without
questioning anyone's understanding of their own faith or the Bible.  I may
not agree with them but I also do not belive they have to think the same as
I in order to be in the good grace of the Lord.

Anxiously awaiting your reply.

Dick S.
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Joe Campbell" 
To: "rvrcowboy" 
Cc: "Vision2020" ; "Scott Dredge" 
Sent: Friday, July 14, 2006 6:52 AM
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] The Great Debate

> Dick writes: "The question being:  Is homosexuality a Biblical sin? I
believe it is.  As I stated in my post; I don't see how any rational person
could reach any other conclusion from reading any translation of the Bible.
I also stated that I am no Biblical scholar, so I could be mistaken."
>
> Is this the time for me to say that I don't see how any rational person
could both call himself a Christian and spend time ridiculing people on the
basis of their own private sexual activities?
>
> Clearly we have different ideas about Christianity and the Bible's
teachings.
>
> --
> Joe Campbell
>
> ---- rvrcowboy  wrote:
>
> =============
> Scott,
>
> I respectfully disagree with you that there are no victims where
homosexuality is concerned.  That is a topic we can cover at another time if
you like.  Let's just say, for now, that it is not always between consenting
adults and there are other ramifications stemming from it.  Perhaps some of
my feelings will be revealed to you when I finally get my answer to the Chas
letter written.
>
> That having been said, the topic was not originally just about
homosexuality but about sin in general, at least that was my take on it.
The question being:  Is homosexuality a Biblical sin?
>
> I believe it is.  As I stated in my post; I don't see how any rational
person could reach any other conclusion from reading any translation of the
Bible.  I also stated that I am no Biblical scholar, so I could be mistaken.
>
> When I spoke of adultry, rape, stealing, etc., I was merely making a point
that these are also sins and that homosexuality should not be made a greater
sin than any of them.  I will also speak my opinion more succinctly about
these matters in my answer to Chas.
>
> I suppose my answer to you, in a nutshell, would be that my opinion about
what is and is not sin does not carry much weight.  The question before us
is whether the Bible (thus God) considers these things sins.  I believe it
(He) does.
>
> I hope this clarifies my original post for you.
>
> Peace,
>
> Dick S.
>   ----- Original Message ----- 
>   From: Scott Dredge
>   To: vision2020 at moscow.com
>   Sent: Thursday, July 13, 2006 11:30 AM
>   Subject: Re: [Vision2020] The Great Debate
>
>
>   rvcowboy,
>
>   There are clearly victims involved in situations of adultery, rape,
cheating, and stealing.  Not so with homosexuality.  Are you really unable
to see the difference between consenual adult activity and scenarios of
someone viciously hurting someone else?
>
>   -Scott
>
>
>
>   "rvrcowboy"  wrote:
>   -----------------------------------------------
>   -- SNIP --
>   I agree with you that Jesus' overwhelming
>   message is that we love one another.  I just don't believe that loving
one another justifies our
>   sins.  Please understand, I don't rate the sin of homosexuality any
differently than adultrey,
>   rape, cheating, stealing, or any other sin.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
----
>
>
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