[Vision2020] The Keely Mix/Doug Wilson Debate

[Tony Simpson]

Sunil,

What is behind this penchant of yours to attribute the actions of a very few 
renegade troops to our military personnel across the board?  "We" did not 
violate the Geneva convention.  A few bad apples did.  "Our" political 
process is not meaningless, the judgment and character of these few troops 
was flawed.  The administration has never "embraced torture", but has 
consistently opposed it.  Several of those renegades responsible are 
presently on trial.

For you to extrapolate as you have would be the equivalent of my saying that 
the entire legal profession is unethical simply because a small minority 
choose to act that way.  Really, Sunil, if your presentations in court are 
as unfounded as your positions on this list, you may well be vulnerable to a 
suit for malpractice.

Case dismissed,  --Tony


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Sunil Ramalingam" <sunilramalingam at hotmail.com>
To: <vision2020 at moscow.com>
Sent: Friday, July 14, 2006 6:41 AM
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] The Keely Mix/Doug Wilson Debate


> Dick,
>
> I'll leave Nick to capably defend his position, but I'll tell you why I
> think we need to look at what WE do.
>
> We have adopted the Geneva Conventions, and are obligated to follow them.
> It is irrelevant if those we fight have done so.  We have our rules and we
> should follow them.
>
> We now claim to be in Iraq to establish democracy.  I myself think that
> claim is a crock, but that too is irrelevant right now.  If we are there 
> to
> establish democracy, we do not further our stated cause by ignoring the
> rules we have adopted.  It only demonstrates that our political process 
> can
> be meaningless, and that lesson is clear to those who suffer when we 
> deviate
> from our rules and laws.
>
> If we are trying to establish a democracy, then we need to win hearts and
> minds through the moral superiority of our conduct.  Do you think the
> Administration's embrace of torture and running secret prisons enhances 
> our
> moral standing anywhere?
>
> Our government is supposed to answer to us; our enemies do not, and I have
> no expectation of that.  But I have the right and responsibility to expect
> my government to comply with our laws.
>
> Sunil
>
>
>>From: "rvrcowboy" <rvrcowboy at clearwire.net>
>>To: "Vision2020" <vision2020 at moscow.com>, <nickgier at adelphia.net>
>>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] The Keely Mix/Doug Wilson Debate
>>Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2006 05:36:52 -0700
>>
>>A direct quote from Nick Gier:  "I'm busy writing my commentary on the 
>>U.S.
>>and Torture (Preliminary title "Beheadings, Hoodings, and Water Boarding:
>>CIA Torture from Vietnam to Gitmo"),......."
>>
>>Nick,
>>
>>I do not understand your passionate desire to constantly denounce our
>>troops, our military and our country, in favor of the tactics of
>>terrorists.
>>We all understand that, in a time of war and under pressure, people
>>sometimes do things they would not normally do.  We also understand the
>>fact
>>that, in the case of our soldiers and military, these times are more rare
>>than the standard of actions.
>>
>>In a hypothetical scenerio, if you were a captured combatant; Would you
>>prefer to be a prisoner of war, held captive by any of the Coalition
>>forces,
>>or, would you prefer to be a prisoner of the extremist factions, operating
>>under no rules of engagement and no rules what-so-ever concerning the
>>treatment of prisoners?  Is your commentary going to include some exposure
>>of the heinous tactics commonly employed by other side, or, are you only
>>interested in exposing the actions of the few, serving our own country, 
>>who
>>have made an error?
>>
>>I am not questioning your right to your own opinions as to the war on
>>terrorism we presently find ourselves engaged in.  I just do not 
>>understand
>>how you justify your endless criticisms of the very country that affords
>>you
>>the freedom of dissent.  After all, as a university professor, you have
>>enjoyed the privileges of being an employee of the very government you
>>appear to be unable to tolerate.  Can you honestly say you attitude would
>>not be different if Bill Clinton or John Kerry were President, as opposed
>>to
>>George W. Bush?  Under the same circumstances, do you really believe their
>>options would be any different?
>>
>>I would like to take the opportunity to apologize to you for some of my
>>past
>>actions of calling you names and condeming you for have a different
>>opinion,
>>from my own.  I would also like to assure you that I am asking these
>>questions in ernest and not to challenge your right to your opinions.  It
>>is
>>just difficult for me to understand why you appear to support the enemies
>>of
>>our country more than our own troops and your own country.
>>
>>Looking forward to your reply and hoping you will not make it too long and
>>too far over my head for me to understand.  :)
>>
>>Have a wonderful day,
>>
>>Dick S.
>
>
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