Fw: [Vision2020] Iraq Then and Now

[rvrcowboy]

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "rvrcowboy" <rvrcowboy at clearwire.net>
To: <nickgier at adelphia.net>
Sent: Friday, July 07, 2006 7:09 PM
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Iraq Then and Now


> Gier writes:  "What gall supporters of the Iraq War have in saying that
> critics have to come up with a solution to the mess their President has
got
> us in."
>
> Like it or not Nick, Bush is just as much your President as he is
anyone's.
> Just as Bill Clinton was mine.  As for being called "cowards" and our
> sagging honor, you and your ilk have had a great deal to do with that
> problem.
>
> As for your average monthly kill rates of Iraqi's.  The goal is to end it
> all together.  Of course, during a time of conflict or war, people die.
Do
> you really believe it will decline if the coalition cuts and runs?  Are
you
> really that naieve?
>
> What difference does it make who is stealing the oil now?  France and
> Germany were doing a great job of that before the war, weren't they?  I
> wonder where all the oil the liberal establishment accused our country of
> trying to steal went?
>
> Of course everyone knows we will be leaving before the 10-15 year period
> Gen. Batiste speaks of.  If it were up to people like you, we would leave
> yesterday and just let the chips fall where they may, regardless of how
many
> deaths that would bring and what it would do to the economy of the entire
> world.
>
> The quagmire buzzword is getting a little old, don't you think?  Someone
> with your intellect should be able to come up with something new.
>
> I still contend we need to face the problems of today in order to provide
a
> suitable outcome for tomorrow.  I do not believe the solution we are
looking
> for is to cut and run.  Oh, I am sorry, you prefer to use your favorite
> term... "abort(ed)".  That always makes you feel more secure.
>
> Dick S....
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: <nickgier at adelphia.net>
> To: <vision2020 at moscow.com>
> Sent: Friday, July 07, 2006 3:15 PM
> Subject: [Vision2020] Iraq Then and Now
>
>
> > Hail to the Vision!
> >
> > What gall supporters of the Iraq War have in saying that critics have to
> come up with a solution to the mess their President has got us in.  Here
we
> stand saying that we should pull ourselves out of the quagmire, but we are
> being called "cowards" as our country and our honor sinks deeper into the
> quicksand.
> >
> > Before the war Saddam was contained and his people, although selectively
> oppressed (as are millions around the world by dictators that we either
> ignore or support), were secure and Iraqi oil flowed uninterrupted for
> export. No-fly zones protected the Kurds in the North and the Shias in the
> South.  The secular Sunni government was wary of radical Islamists, and
Iraq
> and Iran, after a bitter 8-year war, stood at an uneasy truce.
> >
> > After 40 months of war, the average monthly rate of Iraqis killed (about
> 1250) exceeds Saddam's average kill rate of about 1053, taking 300,000 as
> the number killed under his nearly 24-year (285 months) rule. Even Bush
> conceded that 30,000 had died after the first two years.
> >
> > The electricity is at prewar levels, unemployment is much, much higher,
> and oil is flowing at 80 percent of prewar levels, much of it being stolen
> by criminal gangs and troops who are supposed to guard the pipelines.
> >
> > All the parties in the ruling Shiite coalition have close links to Iran
> and the new Prime minister has announced that it is OK for Iran to enrich
> uranium.  There is no question that this government will forge, regardless
> of our wishes, close ties with the only Shiite majority Muslim nation in
the
> world.
> >
> > In his most recent report from Iraq, Lawrence Kaplan (The New Republic,
> 7/10), a supporter of the war as was his journal initially, tells the
story
> of two U. S. units that have been successful in pacifying their areas and
> making friends with some of the people.  Both of them are now pulling out
> and they are not being replaced, and Kaplan predicts that they will return
> to the hands of the insurgents.
> >
> > Bush says that he is staying the course, but Kaplan says that our troops
> and the Iraqis know very well that we are leaving long before the 5-10
years
> that retired General John Bastiste says we have to stay in order "to get
the
> job done."
> >
> > Vietnam was a quagmire and Iraq is one, too.  Thousands of American GIs
> and millions of Vietnamese died needlessly as Nixon dragged out the war
and
> promised that our troops would not have died in vain.  They did
nonetheless.
> An Iraq mission  based on false evidence, invalid reasoning, and poor
> planning cannot be completed successfully; it can only be aborted.
> >
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