[Vision2020] RE: Continuing "The Ramadi Hell Hole"

Thu Jul 6 21:13:45 PDT 2006

In other words, you had your head up your ass in your original post and have
no way to defend it.... right?

Dick S.
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "J Ford" <privatejf32 at hotmail.com>
To: <vision2020 at moscow.com>
Sent: Thursday, July 06, 2006 4:44 PM
Subject: [Vision2020] RE: Continuing "The Ramadi Hell Hole"

> Not worth going through....but thanks for writing.
>
> J  :]
>
>
>
>
> >From: "rvrcowboy" <rvrcowboy at clearwire.net>
> >To: "Vision2020" <vision2020 at moscow.com>, "J Ford"
> ><privatejf32 at hotmail.com>
> >Subject: Continuing "The Ramadi Hell Hole"
> >Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2006 13:55:48 -0700
> >
> >On July 5, J. Ford Wrote (in red):
> >
> >If the Iraqi people are amenable to allowing their life-time enemy to
come
> >in and take over, who are we to say they shouldn't be?
> >
> >Do you really believe the majority of the Iraqi people want to be under
the
> >control of Iran?  Do you really think it would be wise to turn over
control
> >of Iraq to Iran, giving Iran the ability to pressure other OPEC nations?
> >Kuwait, Saudi Arabia and the UAE would be in great peril from such a
> >formidable foe.  Should these other OPEC nations come under the control
of
> >Iran, either directly or indirectly, it would put a great deal of the
> >world's oil supply at risk.  This would likely result in collapse, or
near
> >collapse, of all the world's money markets.
> >
> >OPEC controls 78% of the entire world's oil reserves.  Who, in their
right
> >mind, would advocate allowing such a thing to happen?  Who would just
> >assume the majority of the Iraqi people would be in favor of living under
> >the direct control of Iran?
> >
> >  The ONLY reason we are in the area is that Bush's friends and family
have
> >oil interests there.
> >
> >Do you have proof of this inane statement, or is it just one of your
> >ridiculous, idiotic, groundless beliefs?  If you have proof of this,
please
> >be so kind as to share it with the rest of us.  Also, please inform the
> >rest of us just how many barrels of oil the United States is getting from
> >Iraq at this time, or even in the past.
> >
> >We have NO business telling other countries how they should be run.
> >
> >Using this sort of logic, we have no business interfering in the civil
> >strife of any of the African nations.  We should just stand back and
allow
> >the senseless slaughter of hundreds of thousands of innocent people to
> >continue.  Many people believe we not only should make it our business to
> >intervene in such matters but in fact it is our OBLIGATION to do so.  Did
> >you object to our intervention in Bosnia?  Are you certain you really
> >believe what you are saying?  Or, perhaps you would just rather let the
> >great United Nations handle it all.  Using that strategy, by the time
> >anyone intervenes in any of these problems there will be no one left to
> >save.
> >
> >Unless they are a confirmed and bonafide threat to the rest of the world
> >(which
> >Iraq was NOT at the time we did this) then we have no right to march in
> >there and say "Do things my way or else."
> >
> >I suppose we could all argue for eternity about whether Iraq, under
Saddam,
> >was a threat to the rest of the world.  I would doubt that Israel would
> >agree with you, given the fact Saddam was financing sucicide bombings of
> >innocent Israelis.  The ethnic cleasnsing of the Kurds and the political
> >killings of any who resisted, the imprisonment and torture of young
> >children....... the list goes on and on...
> >
> >In spite of all this, let's assume, for the sake of argument you are
> >correct.  Iraq was NOT a bonafide threat to the rest of the world at the
> >time of our invasion.  Assuming you are correct in this assumption, let's
> >consider if it is a threat to the rest of the world now.  If we cut and
> >run, Murtha style, from Iraq and allow the insurgency to force the rest
of
> >the population into a massive civil war, the threat to the rest of the
> >world should be obvious to even you.
> >
> >If you believe George W. Bush is guilty of war crimes for invading Iraq,
> >that is an issue for the ballot box and legal action.  It does not mean
we
> >should just pull out, leaving thousands, perhaps millions, of innocent
> >people to fend for themselves, knowing most of them would surely die.
> >Priorities dictate that we should deal with the problems as they exsist
> >right now, at this time.  We can not keep bitching and whining about the
> >past while allowing the innocent to die in the present.  Whether we were
> >right or wrong in our past actions, we do definately have an obligation
to
> >millions of people not to just let them die now.  Cries of "Bush Lied!,
> >Children Died! and other rhetoric are not going to help anything in the
> >present.
> >
> >We would fight it if another country did that to us - why should we be
> >allowed to do it to others? The only reason we should come into another
> >area is if we are asked by the government of the country or if there is a
> >real, that's REAL, threat to the world if we don't.
> >
> >Of course we would fight another country invading ours.  So would any
other
> >country, regardless of whether it was justified or not.  As I stated
above,
> >whether or not Iraq, under Saddam, posed a real threat to the rest of the
> >world may be debatable.  If you don't believe it was, take it up at the
> >ballot box.  Surely you are not naieve enough to believe for a moment
that
> >any rogue government, killing its own citizens and exporting terrorism
> >abroad would ever ask another government to step in and straighten the
mess
> >out.  Once again, we must concentrate on the immediate problem right now.
> >The time to argue the rights or wrongs of the past must wait until the
> >present is secure.
> >
> >Where in all that is written does it say "America, the Babysitter of the
> >World"?  I always thought it was "America the Beautiful".
> >
> >Most Americans still believe in "America the Beautiful".  They are not
> >naieve enough to start hating their own country just because they
disagree
> >with their President or the actions of their elected officials.  Most of
us
> >still believe the United States is still the greatest nation in the
world.
> >We laugh at those philosophy professors who continually hold up some
third
> >world dictorate as the role model for Americans, over their own country.
> >
> >As for America being the babysitter of the world, many believe the U.S.
> >should finance the world, or most of it, through the United Nations,
while
> >giving up the right to have any more say in world affairs than any third
> >world nation operating under whatever rogue government they happen to be
> >laboring under at any given moment.
> >
> >Mayhap if we were to stop trying to beat everyone over the head with our
> >way of doing things, the "third world" countries would actually get down
to
> >the business of developing and we'd actually have new partners to do
trade
> >with.
> >
> >And, perhaps, if we just stayed home and let the third world countries
> >eliminate each other, kill off their own people through ethenic
cleansing,
> >and figure out how to support their own citizens, using their own
resources
> >and wealth, there would be no third world countries left to trade with.
> >Hey!  Maybe you have hit on something here!
> >
> >As long as we continue to carry the big stick of "I'm right - you're not"
> >we are going to just continue in the circle of war/hate/intolerance that
we
> >seem stuck in.
> >
> >I just love it when people of your persuasion speak of hate and
> >intolerance.  You hate the President, you hate anyone who does not agree
> >with you politically.  You even transfer your hate of others to your own
> >country.  You are totally intolerant of anyone who believes differently
> >from you and get totally millitant toward them.  Your spokespeople are
> >misfits like Michael Moore or that poor pathetic Cindy Sheehan.  You
accuse
> >your own country for the problems of the entire rest of the world.  You
> >carry so much guilt over being born an American you can't enjoy the
> >privileges and rights you have because of it.
> >
> >Thoughts of a war-weary Vet that has seen too much violence in too short
a
> >period of time.
> >
> >And you somehow believe the violence will just magically end if we just
cut
> >and run and leave the innocent at the mercy of the insurgents?  Do you
> >really belive there will be less violence if that happens?  Are you
really
> >that naieve?
> >
> >J  :]
> >
> >Dick S.
>
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