[Vision2020] RE: Continuing "The Ramadi Hell Hole"

[J Ford]

Not worth going through....but thanks for writing.

J  :]




>From: "rvrcowboy" <rvrcowboy at clearwire.net>
>To: "Vision2020" <vision2020 at moscow.com>, "J Ford" 
><privatejf32 at hotmail.com>
>Subject: Continuing "The Ramadi Hell Hole"
>Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2006 13:55:48 -0700
>
>On July 5, J. Ford Wrote (in red):
>
>If the Iraqi people are amenable to allowing their life-time enemy to come 
>in and take over, who are we to say they shouldn't be?
>
>Do you really believe the majority of the Iraqi people want to be under the 
>control of Iran?  Do you really think it would be wise to turn over control 
>of Iraq to Iran, giving Iran the ability to pressure other OPEC nations?  
>Kuwait, Saudi Arabia and the UAE would be in great peril from such a 
>formidable foe.  Should these other OPEC nations come under the control of 
>Iran, either directly or indirectly, it would put a great deal of the 
>world's oil supply at risk.  This would likely result in collapse, or near 
>collapse, of all the world's money markets.
>
>OPEC controls 78% of the entire world's oil reserves.  Who, in their right 
>mind, would advocate allowing such a thing to happen?  Who would just 
>assume the majority of the Iraqi people would be in favor of living under 
>the direct control of Iran?
>
>  The ONLY reason we are in the area is that Bush's friends and family have 
>oil interests there.
>
>Do you have proof of this inane statement, or is it just one of your 
>ridiculous, idiotic, groundless beliefs?  If you have proof of this, please 
>be so kind as to share it with the rest of us.  Also, please inform the 
>rest of us just how many barrels of oil the United States is getting from 
>Iraq at this time, or even in the past.
>
>We have NO business telling other countries how they should be run.
>
>Using this sort of logic, we have no business interfering in the civil 
>strife of any of the African nations.  We should just stand back and allow 
>the senseless slaughter of hundreds of thousands of innocent people to 
>continue.  Many people believe we not only should make it our business to 
>intervene in such matters but in fact it is our OBLIGATION to do so.  Did 
>you object to our intervention in Bosnia?  Are you certain you really 
>believe what you are saying?  Or, perhaps you would just rather let the 
>great United Nations handle it all.  Using that strategy, by the time 
>anyone intervenes in any of these problems there will be no one left to 
>save.
>
>Unless they are a confirmed and bonafide threat to the rest of the world 
>(which
>Iraq was NOT at the time we did this) then we have no right to march in 
>there and say "Do things my way or else."
>
>I suppose we could all argue for eternity about whether Iraq, under Saddam, 
>was a threat to the rest of the world.  I would doubt that Israel would 
>agree with you, given the fact Saddam was financing sucicide bombings of 
>innocent Israelis.  The ethnic cleasnsing of the Kurds and the political 
>killings of any who resisted, the imprisonment and torture of young 
>children....... the list goes on and on...
>
>In spite of all this, let's assume, for the sake of argument you are 
>correct.  Iraq was NOT a bonafide threat to the rest of the world at the 
>time of our invasion.  Assuming you are correct in this assumption, let's 
>consider if it is a threat to the rest of the world now.  If we cut and 
>run, Murtha style, from Iraq and allow the insurgency to force the rest of 
>the population into a massive civil war, the threat to the rest of the 
>world should be obvious to even you.
>
>If you believe George W. Bush is guilty of war crimes for invading Iraq, 
>that is an issue for the ballot box and legal action.  It does not mean we 
>should just pull out, leaving thousands, perhaps millions, of innocent 
>people to fend for themselves, knowing most of them would surely die.  
>Priorities dictate that we should deal with the problems as they exsist 
>right now, at this time.  We can not keep bitching and whining about the 
>past while allowing the innocent to die in the present.  Whether we were 
>right or wrong in our past actions, we do definately have an obligation to 
>millions of people not to just let them die now.  Cries of "Bush Lied!, 
>Children Died! and other rhetoric are not going to help anything in the 
>present.
>
>We would fight it if another country did that to us - why should we be 
>allowed to do it to others? The only reason we should come into another 
>area is if we are asked by the government of the country or if there is a 
>real, that's REAL, threat to the world if we don't.
>
>Of course we would fight another country invading ours.  So would any other 
>country, regardless of whether it was justified or not.  As I stated above, 
>whether or not Iraq, under Saddam, posed a real threat to the rest of the 
>world may be debatable.  If you don't believe it was, take it up at the 
>ballot box.  Surely you are not naieve enough to believe for a moment that 
>any rogue government, killing its own citizens and exporting terrorism 
>abroad would ever ask another government to step in and straighten the mess 
>out.  Once again, we must concentrate on the immediate problem right now.  
>The time to argue the rights or wrongs of the past must wait until the 
>present is secure.
>
>Where in all that is written does it say "America, the Babysitter of the 
>World"?  I always thought it was "America the Beautiful".
>
>Most Americans still believe in "America the Beautiful".  They are not 
>naieve enough to start hating their own country just because they disagree 
>with their President or the actions of their elected officials.  Most of us 
>still believe the United States is still the greatest nation in the world.  
>We laugh at those philosophy professors who continually hold up some third 
>world dictorate as the role model for Americans, over their own country.
>
>As for America being the babysitter of the world, many believe the U.S. 
>should finance the world, or most of it, through the United Nations, while 
>giving up the right to have any more say in world affairs than any third 
>world nation operating under whatever rogue government they happen to be 
>laboring under at any given moment.
>
>Mayhap if we were to stop trying to beat everyone over the head with our 
>way of doing things, the "third world" countries would actually get down to 
>the business of developing and we'd actually have new partners to do trade 
>with.
>
>And, perhaps, if we just stayed home and let the third world countries 
>eliminate each other, kill off their own people through ethenic cleansing, 
>and figure out how to support their own citizens, using their own resources 
>and wealth, there would be no third world countries left to trade with.  
>Hey!  Maybe you have hit on something here!
>
>As long as we continue to carry the big stick of "I'm right - you're not" 
>we are going to just continue in the circle of war/hate/intolerance that we
>seem stuck in.
>
>I just love it when people of your persuasion speak of hate and 
>intolerance.  You hate the President, you hate anyone who does not agree 
>with you politically.  You even transfer your hate of others to your own 
>country.  You are totally intolerant of anyone who believes differently 
>from you and get totally millitant toward them.  Your spokespeople are 
>misfits like Michael Moore or that poor pathetic Cindy Sheehan.  You accuse 
>your own country for the problems of the entire rest of the world.  You 
>carry so much guilt over being born an American you can't enjoy the 
>privileges and rights you have because of it.
>
>Thoughts of a war-weary Vet that has seen too much violence in too short a 
>period of time.
>
>And you somehow believe the violence will just magically end if we just cut 
>and run and leave the innocent at the mercy of the insurgents?  Do you 
>really belive there will be less violence if that happens?  Are you really 
>that naieve?
>
>J  :]
>
>Dick S.

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