[Vision2020] Moscow Ordinance 2002-13 aka The "Topless" Ordinance

Tue Jul 4 07:24:10 PDT 2006

No, Arnold -

It is not that our current city council agrees with the topless ordinance.
They simply realize that it would be a waste of the city council's time and
efforts to go through the entire process merely to have it removed.  That is
the same reason why there are some peculiar laws still on the books in
various jurisdictions of our country.

Tom Hansen

Moscow, Idaho

"Uh, how about a 1-strike law. Death doesn't seem too extreme for a Level-3
sex offender."

- Dale "Comb-Over" Courtney (August 3, 2005)

  _____  

From: Donovan Arnold [mailto:donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, July 04, 2006 7:10 AM
To: Tom Hansen; 'Saundra Lund'; 'g. crabtree'; vision2020 at moscow.com
Subject: RE: [Vision2020] Moscow Ordinance 2002-13 aka The "Topless"
Ordinance

Obviously, the current City Council agrees with the topless ordinance since
it has not reversed or changed it.

_DJA

Tom Hansen <thansen at moscow.com> wrote:

I agree, Saundra -

The city council, headed by Mayor Comstock, rushed a city ordinance into
effect WITHOUT ANY public discussion.

This is not to say that I support topless carwashes. I simply failed to see
the necessity for such an ordinance.

If Mayor Comstock and his city council supported such an action, in lieu of
any public discussion, this begs the question: What else transpired behind
Mayor Comstock's closed doors. Or was this merely a local congregation
flexing its political muscle?

Tom Hansen
Moscow, Idaho 

"Uh, how about a 1-strike law. Death doesn't seem too extreme for a Level-3
sex offender."

- Dale "Comb-Over" Courtney (August 3, 2005)

-----Original Message-----
From: vision2020-bounces at moscow.com [mailto:vision2020-bounces at moscow.com]
On Behalf Of Saundra Lund
Sent: Monday, July 03, 2006 10:27 AM
To: 'g. crabtree'; vision2020 at moscow.com
Subject: RE: [Vision2020] Moscow Ordinance 2002-13 aka The "Topless"
Ordinance

Hi Mr. Crabtree,

I'm rather pressed for time right now and hope to have time later to respond
to your post, but for now, can you please clarify the following statement
for me?

You wrote:
". . . A decency ordinance is passed, with the support of several local
congregations . . . "

What "several local congregations" are you talking about? I can recall only
*one* local pastor (that would be Doug Wilson) who spoke for his
congregation and one other pastor or perhaps minister who spoke for himself
and not for his congregation.

However, my memory surely isn't perfect, so I'd appreciate it if you could
provide evidence in support of your statement.

Thanks,
Saundra Lund
Moscow, ID

The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good people to do
nothing.
- Edmund Burke

***** Original material contained herein is Copyright 2006, Saundra Lund.
Do not copy, forward, excerpt, or reproduce outside the Vision 2020 forum
without the express written permission of the author.*****

-----Original Message-----
From: g. crabtree [mailto:jampot at adelphia.net] 
Sent: Sunday, July 02, 2006 3:55 PM
To: Saundra Lund; vision2020 at moscow.com
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Moscow Ordinance 2002-13 aka The "Topless"
Ordinance

Mrs. Lund, why is that when the CC critics and their various "progressive" 
buddies along with their hand picked (and paid for) city council people
attempt to impose their will on a collective Moscow, in the form of NSA/CC
harassment, unionization of city employees or anti-growth measures, it's
democracy at work but when A decency ordinance is passed, with the support
of several local congregations and five non CC council members, an ordinance
that is similar to many others across the nation, it's "ridiculous and
reactionary," and a case of ramming through bad law and using undo pressure
as well as contributory to making Moscow a laughing stock? And all because
of Doug Wilson? I seem to sense a serious double standard at work here. 
Again.

I also really don't recall there being a feeling of desperation in the air
when Ord. 2002-13 was enacted and am certain that a lynch mob mentality was
not at work. To refer to goings on surrounding the enactment of the topless
ordinance as a sacrificial crisis is to grossly overstate matters in an
attempt to make a tenuous, to the point of nonexistent argument. If the
majority of Moscow truly feels that they were "steamrolled," it should be
fairly easy to have this odious piece of law making repealed. Perhaps you'll
have citizen/councilman Ament bring this urgent matter up at the next
council meeting? Maybe Mr. Stout would like to champion this important cause
for you? Remember what happens if good people do nothing.

gc

----- Original Message -----
From: "Saundra Lund" 
To: 
Sent: Sunday, July 02, 2006 11:42 AM
Subject: [Vision2020] Moscow Ordinance 2002-13 aka The "Topless" Ordinance

> Visionaries:
>
> I got an email today from a friend who worked with the group which tried 
> to
> overturn Moscow's ridiculous and reactionary topless ordinance that was
> rammed through due to pressure from the Christ Church "PAC."
>
> My friend sent me a link to an entry on Doug Wilson's blog and thought it
> did an excellent job of explaining the Christ Church's role in that mess
> that steamrolled over the beliefs of the majority of our community:
>
> "Those who stir up strife in towns, churches, cities, or nations are 
> trying
> to create a situation when everyone will get to a point of desperation, 
> and
> then try to resolve the problem with some kind of dramatic action. That
> dramatic action is sudden, forceful, fascinating, and its effects are very
> potent . . . and temporary.
>
> This is why mobs function the way they do. This is how lynching occurs. .
> .But it is a pseudo-salvation. It is a lie. When this kind of person
> succeeds in stirring up a sacrificial crisis, he gets the mob, or the 
> crowd,
> or the presbytery, or the congregation, as the case may be, whipped up 
> into
> a sacrificial crisis and ready for a dramatic solution to all the trouble.

> "
> http://www.dougwils.com/index.asp?Action=Anchor&CategoryID=1&BlogID=2510
>
> Indeed.
>
> A law was passed that AFAIK to this day has *never* been enforced. 
> However,
> it did manage to make Moscow, Idaho a national laughing stock :-(
>
> I have to agree with my friend . . . and I also have to wonder why Wilson
> doesn't see himself in his own words :-(
>
>
> Saundra Lund
> Moscow, ID
>
> The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good people to do
> nothing.
> - Edmund Burke
>
> ***** Original material contained herein is Copyright 2006, Saundra Lund.
> Do not copy, forward, excerpt, or reproduce outside the Vision 2020 forum
> without the express written permission of the author.*****
>
>
> =====================================================
> List services made available by First Step Internet,
> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
> http://www.fsr.net
> mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
> ====================================================
> 

=====================================================
List services made available by First Step Internet, 
serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994. 
http://www.fsr.net 
mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
====================================================

  _____  

Do you Yahoo!?
Get on board. You're
<http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=40791/*http:/advision.webevents.yahoo.com/handra
isers>  invited to try the new Yahoo! Mail Beta.

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://mailman.fsr.com/pipermail/vision2020/attachments/20060704/2e26d61d/attachment-0001.htm