[Vision2020] the pledge

Fri Jan 27 07:20:29 PST 2006

Again, there is a difference between saying that saying the Pledge is a waste of time and saying that it takes too much time. That was my only point. I did not claim that saying the Pledge was like picking up a penny.
Why would anyone who wants to say the Pledge need to say it in the Chamber in front of others? Why isn't saying the Pledge in one's own place and on one's own time enough for those who want to say it? Perhaps you, Donovan, think that saying the Pledge has some value. Fine; I agree. Say the Pledge whenever you want. But what has that to do with compelling others to say it on a regular basis? Note that this is a general point that I am making. Personally, I share your view, Donovan. Were I on council, I would come out BEFORE each council meeting and say the Pledge. What I wouldn't do is try to inflict my own ideas of patriotism on others.
Also, it is unfair to suggest that the mayor and council were hiding anything. When asked why the Pledge was not said two council members and our wonderful mayor addressed the issue directly, in this very forum.
--
Joe Campbell

---- Donovan Arnold wrote:

=============
Joe,

Don Huskey was the one that claimed John Dickinson made the argument, (I mistakenly believed him) it was a waste of time to say the pledge. However, I disagree, and I think what you get out of it, learning respect for your countrymen and women that gave so much for what you now have, is well worth more than the penny in your analogy.

What you should be asking is Joe, is why the City Council and Mayor did not say anything before or after they made the decision to ax the Pledge? Were they thinking it was not important? Or just hoping we would not notice? Did it slip their minds? Did they not care what the people they represent feel or want? Either way, it should give you pause.

As for the "Those who wish to recite the Pledge before council meetings can do so."--I do not think so. Anyone that recites the Pledge will be ruled out of order and can be removed from the chamber by law enforcement.

Take Care,

_DJA

joekc at adelphia.net wrote: Roger,
I don't recall anyone saying that council should not say the Pledge because it takes too much time. Donovan posted that it was a bad reason to offer but no one -- in my recollection -- every offered this as a reason. Don Huskey claimed that saying the Pledge was a waste of time but this is a different point. Picking up a penny is a waste of time -- in the end you only have a penny for your efforts -- but it doesn't take a lot of time.

I agree -- very much -- with the last point that you made but one can support either side of the debate with that point. For instance, no one is holding a gun to anyone's head and requiring them NOT to say the Pledge. Those who wish to recite the Pledge before council meetings can do so. I think they should do it BEFORE council starts since council and the mayor have decided not to say it on a regular basis. I find it interesting that some folks are not satisfied with saying the Pledge or a prayer in private. They must say it in front of others and must compel others to say it with them. This indicates to me that saying the Pledge or praying is more of a political gesture than it is a patriotic or religious one. For SOME people, at least.
--
Joe Campbell

---- lfalen wrote:

=============
Most of the comments for not saying the pledge are accurate enough, except for it takings to long. It takes less than a minute. That is not much time out of any busy schedule. It is true that scoundrels would not have o problem saying the pledge. As samuel Johnson said " Patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel". None of this is a justification for not saying it. That is like "throwing the baby out with the bath water" The pledge serves a useful purpose. It is good to reaffirm allegiance to our country. The continued dropping of things patriotic eventually leads to a disrespect for the country. There is enough revisionist history already that reminds everyone of how many worts we have. No one is holding a gun to anyone's head and requiring them to say it. Have it presented. Those that want to recite it can do so. Any one who does not want to can remain silent or leave out passages they don't agree with.

Roger

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