[Vision2020] Wal-Mart - was Doug Jones Says It Clearly

[joekc at adelphia.net]

Donovan,
What would constitute evidence against the claim that the free market always yields the best economic result? Certainly, no matter what I offer as evidence you could always give a similar reply. But this could indicate that your faith in the free market is based on some kind of abstract, a priori reasoning as opposed to any actual empirical data.
--
Joe Campbell

---- Donovan Arnold wrote:

=============
Joe,

Do you have any evidence that KB Toys shut down in the mall because of Wal-Mart and not other factors?

I claim that it did not. KB Toys has had to close hundreds of stores throughout the country. Many of these stores in cities and towns that do not even have a Wal-Mart.

My understanding is that KB Toys shut down these stores because of greed. They got rid of under-preforming stores and 3,000 jobs so their stock value would go up.

_DJA



joekc at adelphia.net wrote: Gary,
I didn't think Mr. Schou's analogy blew but here is a real world example of an inferior business beating out a superior competitor. The mall used to have a toy store: Kay-Be Toys, or something like that. I went there frequently when my son was younger and my wife let me spoil him more. Wal-Mart drove Kay-Bee Toys out of business. Kay-Be Toys had a far superior selection of toys and was by any set of standards a better toy store than Wal-Mart. (Neither are as good as Hodgins Drug Store but that's another issue.) What happened was that kids go to toy stores with their parents but parents buy other things besides toys, things that are not sold at Kay-Be Toys. In short, Wal-Mart offers low-cost and convenience. That is it. It is 'superior' to other stores for these two reasons only. But that is enough to drive out some businesses. Once those businsesses leave, the folks in Moscow will have fewer choices, not more choices.

You note that "many communities that are co-existing with the worlds largest retailer to the betterment of its residents." But many are not. It was noted in Tom Trail's post that two communities like ours were "sucked dry" after a Super Wal-Mart moved in. For the sake of argument suppose that 98 communities like ours were not sucked dry. Would you take a pill that had only a 2% chance of killing you if you didn't need it and you were getting along fine without it? I don't think so. I love Moscow and low-cost and convenience are not enough reason for me to risk sucking it dry.


--
Joe Campbell



---- "g. crabtree" wrote:

=============
Mr. Schou, Your analogy blows. It seems clear to me that you have very
little understanding of how an 'all in" bet works but rather than educate
you on the finer points of poker allow me to propose an analogy of my own. A
player comes to the game and bluffs outrageously each and every hand. Soon,
his fellow gamblers see him for what he is and call him. His weak hands are
revealed, his resources dwindle and very soon he is out of the game.

This appears to be the tactic of the common garden variety wal-mart
opponent. Exclaim loudly how WM will be the ruination of civilization and
will bring about the heat death of the universe and so on. When folks see
that there are many communities that are co-existing with the worlds largest
retailer to the betterment of its residents our protester is revealed as at
best, wrong and at worst, a dupe.

Getting back to the original heart of the discussion, hows about some real
world examples of inferior business' beating out superior competitors. I'll
be waiting, watching the pages of my calendar flit by.

gc


----- Original Message -----
From: "Andreas Schou"
To: "g. crabtree"
Cc: ;
Sent: Thursday, January 26, 2006 4:48 PM
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Doug Jones Says It Clearly


>You are right about my confidence in a free market. Perhaps you could give
>me a few examples where an inferior business beat out a superior one.

Let me use a poker analogy. If I had a trillion dollars, played poker
for a living, and won every poker game I played by going "all in" on
every hand, would I be the best poker player that ever lived? Hint:
no, I would not.

This is Wal*Mart's business model: saturate the market, make
monopsonic agreements with suppliers, and run as thin a margin as
possible in new stores until all the other business goes under. Is
this a good business strategy? Yes. Does it contribute to market
efficiency -- which is generally how a "superior business" is
understood to work? No. It does not.

-- ACS



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