[Vision2020] light pollution
Patrick T. Evans
ptevans at moscow.com
Sun Jan 22 13:52:22 PST 2006
My farm is in Princeton. I have lived in Latah county since 1979 -
mostly outside of Moscow. Fact is, most of the mercury vapor lights
in the county are owned by Clearwater Power and they most likely
would be responsible for changing them - not the home owner. If you
own your own yard lights, simple shields can be purchased for 25 to 50
$. I drive the rural roads regularly and unsightly yard lights are
continuing to multiply plus I have one glaring across my home site in
Princeton - many people have this same problem. Let's work together
and solve it. Shielding yard lights is common decency and it's the
right thing to do.
PT Evans
On Jan 22, 2006, at 1:20 PM, Phil Nisbet wrote:
> Janesta
>
> The question is one of costs and need. Yes there is a light
> pollution problem in Moscow and its immediate vicinity, but in the
> rest of the county? Why in areas far removed from Moscow, where
> the housing and other density concerns are minimal and the numbers
> of lights are few and far between, should rural residents have to
> pay $200 per light to buy specialized devices to shield their
> outdoor lighting?
>
> Unlike the junk monster homes on the tops of the hills, whose
> residents can easily afford the costs of shielding devices, many of
> the people who live in Bovill, Deary, Stanford, Harvard and the
> other parts of the county are not exactly made of money. As you
> note, lighting can keep predators at the edge of the circle of
> lighting, so should somebody out in Vasser Meadow have to pay an
> additional $200 per light to protect from predation so that the
> people close to Moscow can have a warm and fuzzy feeling about the
> night sky?
>
> The demand for light control is coming from the Moscow sub-basin.
> So if they want light pollution standards here in the environs of
> Moscow, why force the same standard on people in the rest of the
> county?
>
> Its interesting to me that the protest letter to organize forcing
> this issue through does so with utter contempt for any area in the
> county but right here in town. The people in the rest of the
> county do not want this standard, but they are told in the Letter
> by Evans that the people here in Moscow will band together to force
> them to adhere to standards that are only really needed in the
> vicinity of Moscow. The expense of the idea ends up being levied
> against the people in the county with the lowest income stream by
> the richest portion of the county who are actually the problem.
> Sure Evans as a former high salary United Nations employee with
> plenty of disposable income can insist that its no big thing to
> kick a gradn per rural home is not big thing, but for folks making
> rural wages in the rest of the county, the cost can be percents of
> income.
>
> Phil Nisbet
>
>
>
>> From: Janesta Carcich <janestacarcich at yahoo.com>
>> To: Steven Basoa <sbasoa at moscow.com>, Jeff Harkins <jeffh at moscow.com>
>> CC: vision2020 at moscow.com
>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] light pollution
>> Date: Sun, 22 Jan 2006 11:28:24 -0800 (PST)
>>
>> Well said, Mr. Basoa. *warm smile*
>>
>> I live in town, looking south from my yard, for years
>> I would see the parking lot lights of Tidymans glaring
>> up the sky. It was terrible.
>>
>> Having lived on a ranch in the middle of Podunk
>> nowhere for years, in my opinion, I don't think that
>> having shielded lights will make one iota of
>> difference as far as coyotes are concerned. Tell
>> me.... if the light had a reflector, or shield,
>> wouldn't MORE light go to the ground?
>>
>> I can remember how a pack would frequently sit the
>> edge of the yard light... every once in a while, the
>> most courageous inching further and further into the
>> light, while cohorts in cat kidnapping, sat timid in
>> the dark, howling the brave one on.
>>
>> We don’t need light shining up to the heavens; the
>> light needs to be on the ground, where it will make
>> some semblance of difference.
>>
>> Now, does anyone want to buy me a new yard light?
>> Seriously, is there a program for replacement lights
>> that anyone knows about?
>>
>> Janesta
>>
>>
>> --- Steven Basoa <sbasoa at moscow.com> wrote:
>>
>> > Mr. Harkins,
>> >
>> > Please do your homework about neighbors before you
>> > post.
>> >
>> > It's wonderful that you, as a rural property owner,
>> > "respect the
>> > concept of light pollution and manage my light use
>> > to be as
>> > unobtrusive as possible." It is to be applauded
>> > that you and your
>> > neighbors are able to work out problems such as
>> > light pollution. I,
>> > too, am a rural property owner and have enjoyed good
>> > working
>> > relations with my neighbors.
>> >
>> > However, some neighbors simply don't give a crap.
>> > They do what they
>> > do and don't consider anything but their own
>> > amusements. If their
>> > night lights are pointed directly into your living
>> > room, it's your
>> > problem, not theirs ('put up heavier curtains' they
>> > might say). Some
>> > neighbors will be understanding and listen to
>> > reason. Others will go
>> > out and increase the wattage. It's a crapshoot.
>> > You and I, we're
>> > lucky to have good neighbors. Many others are not
>> > so fortunate. And
>> > with the current trend of building a house on top of
>> > every hill in
>> > the county, light pollution is bound to get worse.
>> >
>> > I support the draft ordinance requiring shielded
>> > lights. This shows
>> > consideration for neighbors and still allows
>> > excellent visibility for
>> > property owners. I fail to see how this
>> > requirement will cause more
>> > "damage and injury to property and persons" or cause
>> > more "damages to
>> > animals and crops harmed by predators and foragers".
>> > My unshielded
>> > lights (granted, they are not high wattage mercury
>> > vapor lights) do
>> > not keep the deer and moose away nor do they stop
>> > the coyotes from
>> > their nightly prowls. As to "damages resulting from
>> > burglary,
>> > trespass and general mischief", well, shielded or
>> > not, lights alone
>> > will not deter a determined burglar or general
>> > mischief-maker.
>> >
>> > I take great pleasure in viewing the night sky,
>> > unobstructed from
>> > most neighbors lights. I am very fortunate in that
>> > regard and wish
>> > to remain so. This proposed ordinance is a positive
>> > step towards
>> > preserving one aspect of this wonderful quality of
>> > life we currently
>> > enjoy here in Latah County while causing few, if
>> > any, real problems.
>> >
>> > -Steven
>> >
>> > On Jan 21, 2006, at 11:46 PM, Jeff Harkins wrote:
>> >
>> > Mr. Evans,
>> >
>> > Please do your homework about the physics of light
>> > before you post.
>> >
>> > For the rest of you interested in this topic,
>> > consider that with a
>> > bit over 1000 square miles of land in Latah County,
>> > there are 500
>> > rural farm lights (yard lights). That is 1 light
>> > per 2 square
>> > miles. Since many of the lights are clustered in
>> > areas around the
>> > urban centers, the average number of light units per
>> > square mile
>> > drops considerably. It is dark in the rural parts
>> > of this county.
>> >
>> > As a rural property owner, let me assure you that I
>> > do respect the
>> > concept of light pollution and manage my light use
>> > to be as
>> > unobtrusive as possible. All of us in our
>> > "neighborhood" work
>> > together to not impose on each other on most issues,
>> > including
>> > lighting. If there was a problem, we would find a
>> > way to work it
>> > out. I don't recognize your name and I am rather
>> > confident that you
>> > don't live near me. So why, exactly, are you
>> > attempting to dictate
>> > lighting issues to me and my neighbors.
>> >
>> > If you, Mr. Evans, would be willing to demand that
>> > the County accept
>> > all liability for damage and injury to property and
>> > persons that
>> > result from reduced lighting on rural property,
>> > would support a fair
>> > compensation to me (or my neighbors) for damages to
>> > animals and crops
>> > harmed by predators and foragers, would support
>> > public funds be
>> > raised to reimburse me (or rural residents) for
>> > damages resulting
>> > from burglary, trespass and general mischief, we can
>> > pursue a
>> > dialogue. Frankly, I would rather invest such
>> > scarce public dollars
>> > in county infrastructure and schools ....
>> >
>> > Until then, I will not compromise my responsibility
>> > for the health
>> > and safety of my family, my neighbors or my friends
>> > for your dark sky
>> > agenda.
>> >
>> > Until you support full financial responsibility by
>> > Latah County for
>> > the consequences for what you are asking me and my
>> > neighbors to do in
>> > our neighborhood, why don't you work with your
>> > neighbors to deal with
>> > the light pollution in your neighborhood? I assume
>> > that you live in
>> > Moscow.
>> >
>> > >
>> _____________________________________________________
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>> >
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>> >
>> > mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
>> >
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>> >
>>
>>
>> Janesta Carcich
>>
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