[Vision2020] light pollution

[Phil Nisbet]

Janesta

The question is one of costs and need.  Yes there is a light pollution 
problem in Moscow and its immediate vicinity, but in the rest of the county? 
  Why in areas far removed from Moscow, where the housing and other density 
concerns are minimal and the numbers of lights are few and far between, 
should rural residents have to pay $200 per light to buy specialized devices 
to shield their outdoor lighting?

Unlike the junk monster homes on the tops of the hills, whose residents can 
easily afford the costs of shielding devices, many of the people who live in 
Bovill, Deary, Stanford, Harvard and the other parts of the county are not 
exactly made of money.  As you note, lighting can keep predators at the edge 
of the circle of lighting, so should somebody out in Vasser Meadow have to 
pay an additional $200 per light to protect from predation so that the 
people close to Moscow can have a warm and fuzzy feeling about the night 
sky?

The demand for light control is coming from the Moscow sub-basin.  So if 
they want light pollution standards here in the environs of Moscow, why 
force the same standard on people in the rest of the county?

Its interesting to me that the protest letter to organize forcing this issue 
through does so with utter contempt for any area in the county but right 
here in town.  The people in the rest of the county do not want this 
standard, but they are told in the Letter by Evans that the people here in 
Moscow will band together to force them to adhere to standards that are only 
really needed in the vicinity of Moscow.  The expense of the idea ends up 
being levied against the people in the county with the lowest income stream 
by the richest portion of the county who are actually the problem.  Sure 
Evans as a former high salary United Nations employee with plenty of 
disposable income can insist that its no big thing to kick a gradn per rural 
home is not big thing, but for folks making rural wages in the rest of the 
county, the cost can be percents of income.

Phil Nisbet



>From: Janesta Carcich <janestacarcich at yahoo.com>
>To: Steven Basoa <sbasoa at moscow.com>, Jeff Harkins <jeffh at moscow.com>
>CC: vision2020 at moscow.com
>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] light pollution
>Date: Sun, 22 Jan 2006 11:28:24 -0800 (PST)
>
>Well said, Mr. Basoa. *warm smile*
>
>I live in town, looking south from my yard, for years
>I would see the parking lot lights of Tidymans glaring
>up the sky. It was terrible.
>
>Having lived on a ranch in the middle of Podunk
>nowhere for years, in my opinion, I don't think that
>having shielded lights will make one iota of
>difference as far as coyotes are concerned. Tell
>me.... if the light had a reflector, or shield,
>wouldn't MORE light go to the ground?
>
>I can remember how a pack would frequently sit the
>edge of the yard light... every once in a while, the
>most courageous inching further and further into the
>light, while cohorts in cat kidnapping, sat timid in
>the dark, howling the brave one on.
>
>We don’t need light shining up to the heavens; the
>light needs to be on the ground, where it will make
>some semblance of difference.
>
>Now, does anyone want to buy me a new yard light?
>Seriously, is there a program for replacement lights
>that anyone knows about?
>
>Janesta
>
>
>--- Steven Basoa <sbasoa at moscow.com> wrote:
>
> > Mr. Harkins,
> >
> > Please do your homework about neighbors before you
> > post.
> >
> > It's wonderful that you, as a rural property owner,
> > "respect the
> > concept of light pollution and manage my light use
> > to be as
> > unobtrusive as possible."  It is to be applauded
> > that you and your
> > neighbors are able to work out problems such as
> > light pollution.  I,
> > too, am a rural property owner and have enjoyed good
> > working
> > relations with my neighbors.
> >
> > However, some neighbors simply don't give a crap.
> > They do what they
> > do and don't consider anything but their own
> > amusements.  If their
> > night lights are pointed directly into your living
> > room, it's your
> > problem, not theirs ('put up heavier curtains' they
> > might say).  Some
> > neighbors will be understanding and listen to
> > reason.  Others will go
> > out and increase the wattage.  It's a crapshoot.
> > You and I, we're
> > lucky to have good neighbors.  Many others are not
> > so fortunate.  And
> > with the current trend of building a house on top of
> > every hill in
> > the county,  light pollution is bound to get worse.
> >
> > I support the draft ordinance requiring shielded
> > lights.  This shows
> > consideration for neighbors and still allows
> > excellent visibility for
> > property owners.  I fail to  see how this
> > requirement will cause more
> > "damage and injury to property and persons" or cause
> > more "damages to
> > animals and crops harmed by predators and foragers".
> >  My unshielded
> > lights (granted, they are not high wattage mercury
> > vapor lights) do
> > not keep the deer and moose away nor do they stop
> > the coyotes from
> > their nightly prowls.  As to "damages resulting from
> > burglary,
> > trespass and general mischief", well, shielded or
> > not, lights alone
> > will not deter a determined burglar or general
> > mischief-maker.
> >
> > I take great pleasure in viewing the night sky,
> > unobstructed from
> > most neighbors lights.  I am very fortunate in that
> > regard and wish
> > to remain so.  This proposed ordinance is a positive
> > step towards
> > preserving one aspect of this wonderful quality of
> > life we currently
> > enjoy here in Latah County while causing few, if
> > any, real problems.
> >
> > -Steven
> >
> > On Jan 21, 2006, at 11:46 PM, Jeff Harkins wrote:
> >
> > Mr. Evans,
> >
> > Please do your homework about the physics of light
> > before you post.
> >
> > For the rest of you interested in this topic,
> > consider that with a
> > bit over 1000 square miles of land in Latah County,
> > there are 500
> > rural farm lights (yard lights).  That is 1 light
> > per 2 square
> > miles.  Since many of the lights are clustered in
> > areas around the
> > urban centers, the average number of light units per
> > square mile
> > drops considerably.  It is dark in the rural parts
> > of this county.
> >
> > As a rural property owner, let me assure you that I
> > do respect the
> > concept of light pollution and manage my light use
> > to be as
> > unobtrusive as possible.  All of us in our
> > "neighborhood" work
> > together to not impose on each other on most issues,
> > including
> > lighting.  If there was a problem, we would find a
> > way to work it
> > out.  I don't recognize your name and I am rather
> > confident that you
> > don't live near me.  So why, exactly, are you
> > attempting to dictate
> > lighting issues to me and my neighbors.
> >
> > If you, Mr. Evans, would be willing to demand that
> > the County accept
> > all liability for damage and injury to property and
> > persons that
> > result from reduced lighting on rural property,
> > would support a fair
> > compensation to me (or my neighbors) for damages to
> > animals and crops
> > harmed by predators and foragers, would support
> > public funds be
> > raised to reimburse me (or rural residents) for
> > damages resulting
> > from burglary, trespass and general mischief, we can
> > pursue a
> > dialogue.  Frankly, I would rather invest such
> > scarce public dollars
> > in county infrastructure and schools ....
> >
> > Until then, I will not compromise my responsibility
> > for the health
> > and safety of my family, my neighbors or my friends
> > for your dark sky
> > agenda.
> >
> > Until you support full financial responsibility by
> > Latah County for
> > the consequences for what you are asking me and my
> > neighbors to do in
> > our neighborhood, why don't you work with your
> > neighbors to deal with
> > the light pollution in your neighborhood?  I assume
> > that you live in
> > Moscow.
> >
> > >
>_____________________________________________________
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> >
> >                http://www.fsr.net
> >
> >           mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
> >
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> >
>
>
>Janesta Carcich
>
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