[Vision2020] City Council and the Pledge

J Ford privatejf32 at hotmail.com
Sat Jan 21 15:20:30 PST 2006 

Wasn't the pledge meant to be just that - a pledge?  We have the President 
"pledge" his allegience to this country when he takes office - he does not 
say it every day.  We have the Congress say a "pledge" when THEY take office 
- they do not say it every day.  When this council took office, THEY took a 
"pledge" - they do not say it every day.

I have looked up the definition of pledge:

a binding promise or agreement to do or forbear: a person who has so 
promised

I also looked up oath:

a solemn usually formal calling upon God or a god to witness to the truth of 
what one says or to witness that one sincerely intends to do what one says 
(2) : a solemn attestation of the truth or inviolability of one's words b : 
something (as a promise) corroborated by an oath

In other words, a PROMISE or PLEDGE to do as one has said they would do.

I don't believe we need to continually ask these people to make this 
promise; the fact that they are in office and working towards the betterment 
of this city says they will.  (NOTE:  Nixon took the oath and said the 
"pledge" - as did Bush I and II - anyone care to "vouch" for them just 
because they said it?)

Someone said it earlier - just because you say the pledge does not mean you 
will follow it - nor does it mean that if you don't say it, you will not 
follow it.  How many times do you say it - daily, weekly, monthly, yearly, 
whenever?  Are you any less a patriot or loyal to this country if you don't?

Don't we have better things to deal with than this?

J  :]




>From: Donovan Arnold <donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com>
>To: Sunil Ramalingam <sunilramalingam at hotmail.com>
>CC: vision2020 at moscow.com
>Subject: RE: [Vision2020] City Council and the Pledge
>Date: Sat, 21 Jan 2006 14:59:14 -0800 (PST)
>
>I fail to see the logical connection between  searching hand bags and 
>saying the pledge of allegiance, Sunil.; but I  guess that is why you are 
>the lawyer and I am stupid college kid.
>
>   However, I will point out that saying the pledge of allegiance, fight  
>songs, national anthems, etc. by a group has proved to be effective in  
>creating a sense of community and belonging. It helps people feel like  
>they are all part of something important. That is why the military,  sports 
>teams, and other groups use it.
>
>  The Pledge of  Allegiance may in truth not directly do anything. But it 
>is important,  just like singing the Vandal Fight Song at a football game 
>is  important. It does not directly cause a goal, but it gives a since of  
>pride and purpose of those that do. The city council does not meet just  to 
>pass zoning codes, it does not meet to just decide policy,  ballparks, 
>roads, and budgets. Those are just details to a larger  purpose of the 
>council, which is to serve the people of this great  nation and city.
>
>  I REJECT the concept that this nation  should only show loyalty and 
>commitment to friends and neighbors ONLY  in a time of war or tragedy. Or 
>as others say, through their votes. We  should show it always. The United 
>States Flag and the Pledge have deep  meaning to me, and millions of 
>Americans. To eliminate its recognition  for which we enjoy its protection 
>and all that came with that  protection, those that died for it, is wrong 
>in my heart and mind. You  may not agree with that thought, and that is 
>fine. But I, personally  view the stopping of the pledge before a US 
>government meeting of  elected US officials as insulting and I am going to 
>say so.
>
>   If you want to call that belief silly, that is fine. You can call those  
>that say it silly. If members of the council do not want to invest a  
>whopping two minutes a month I guess that is there right to do so.  
>However, I strongly disagree and take offense to the action.
>
>   If the pledge and the flag is do unimportant, why do people get so  
>upset when the Confederate flag is honored. Because we all know, that  the 
>MEANING behind a  flag screams our values, our beliefs, and  our future 
>commitments.
>
>   _DJA
>
>
>
>Sunil Ramalingam <sunilramalingam at hotmail.com> wrote:  And by your logic, 
>Donovan, those with nothing to hide should not mind
>opening their bags, vehicles, and homes to searches by the police.  They
>should welcome warrantless searches of these, as well as monitoring of 
>their
>email and phone conversations by the NSA.  If they're loyal, why object to
>such intrusions?
>
>It is silly to think that somehow good governance follows because the 
>pledge
>is recited.  Did the City Council's performance improve after they started
>saying the Pledge at meetings four years ago?  Wasn't the ludicrous Topless
>Ordinance enacted within the last four years?  The decision to pour money
>into the gym?  That was certainly in the last four years.  When former 
>Mayor
>Comstock told residents in the neighborhood near the proposed ballfields to
>wear earplugs, was that inspired by the Pledge?  Was that responsive
>governance?
>
>I honestly don't know how often the Pledge is recited by the President or
>Congress, but I don't see them serving our interests with either the war in
>Iraq or by running up staggering deficits.  I'd prefer they spend less time
>on the pledge, and more time avoiding bone-headed policies.
>
>I won't be judging this council on the basis of whether they start their
>meetings with the Pledge of Alliegance.  I'll judge them on the basis of
>their responsiveness to the public and by the quality of their decisions.  
>I
>am more interested in what they do after the meeting starts than whether
>they can chant in unison at the beginning.
>
>Sunil
>
> >From: Donovan Arnold
> >To: John Dickinson , "'Phil Nisbet'"
> >
>,        nchaney at moscow.com
> >CC: aaronament at moscow.com, vision2020 at moscow.com, johnd at moscow.com,
> >blambert at ci.moscow.id.us, jweber at ci.moscow.id.us,        "'Linda Pall'"
> >, bstout at ci.moscow.id.us
> >Subject: RE: [Vision2020] City Council and the Pledge
> >Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2006 23:37:17 -0800 (PST)
> >
> >John and Nancy,
> >
> >   I want to thank you for having the courage to write Vision2020 and
> >publicly address the issue of the Pledge of Allegiance.
> >
> >   However, I want to say that it saddens my heart and upsets my stomach
> >that you have removed the pledge of allegiance to our flag from your
> >bi-monthly meetings. I strongly believe that this is a step in the  wrong
> >direction, particularly at this time.
> >
> >  Granted, the  pledge is abused, misused, uttered with content,
> >repetition, and  without meaning to many, and its purpose is lost on many
> >more. But  regardless, the pledge was meant to illustrate to the public
> >your  loyalty to the people. It is a reminder to the corruptible, to
> >politicians that forget why they are there after many years of service,
> >and to those about to cast a vote to spite a political enemy or help a
> >personal friend, that their vote and loyalty belongs to and for all the
> >PEOPLE of Moscow, the people of Idaho, and the people of the United
> >States.
> >
> >  With all of the corruption, back room deals, and  dishonest politicians
> >in our mists, I believe it is important that  every elected official make 
>a
> >public statement before casting a vote  that they acknowledge publicly 
>WHY
> >and for WHO they are casting their  vote.
> >
> >  I am sorry to hear, Councilman Dickinson, that saying  the pledge twice 
>a
> >month is too much for you. I for one feel that we  should be honored to 
>say
> >it at least as much.
> >
> >  The irony  here is that we force our children every school day to take 
>a
> >loyalty  to the nation when they know not the meaning of the word, and 
>the
> >politicos that need to remind themselves and the people why they are
> >elected to office, excuse themselves from such commitments.
> >
> >   Mayor Cheney, Councilman Dickinson, and the other member of the
> >council, if you feel your oath to this city is unquestionable, if you  
>have
> >  unquestionable loyalty to  this nation, if you do not  question your
> >pride in this nation,  then their should be no  question to your
> >willingness to say the pledge twice a month that  children say five times 
>a
> >week.
> >
> >   Sincerely,
> >
> >   Donovan J Arnold
> >Proud United States Citizen and Moscow Resident
>
>
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