[Vision2020] City Council and the Pledge

Sat Jan 21 14:59:14 PST 2006

I fail to see the logical connection between  searching hand bags and saying the pledge of allegiance, Sunil.; but I  guess that is why you are the lawyer and I am stupid college kid.

  However, I will point out that saying the pledge of allegiance, fight  songs, national anthems, etc. by a group has proved to be effective in  creating a sense of community and belonging. It helps people feel like  they are all part of something important. That is why the military,  sports teams, and other groups use it.

 The Pledge of  Allegiance may in truth not directly do anything. But it is important,  just like singing the Vandal Fight Song at a football game is  important. It does not directly cause a goal, but it gives a since of  pride and purpose of those that do. The city council does not meet just  to pass zoning codes, it does not meet to just decide policy,  ballparks, roads, and budgets. Those are just details to a larger  purpose of the council, which is to serve the people of this great  nation and city. 

 I REJECT the concept that this nation  should only show loyalty and commitment to friends and neighbors ONLY  in a time of war or tragedy. Or as others say, through their votes. We  should show it always. The United States Flag and the Pledge have deep  meaning to me, and millions of Americans. To eliminate its recognition  for which we enjoy its protection and all that came with that  protection, those that died for it, is wrong in my heart and mind. You  may not agree with that thought, and that is fine. But I, personally  view the stopping of the pledge before a US government meeting of  elected US officials as insulting and I am going to say so.

  If you want to call that belief silly, that is fine. You can call those  that say it silly. If members of the council do not want to invest a  whopping two minutes a month I guess that is there right to do so.  However, I strongly disagree and take offense to the action.  

  If the pledge and the flag is do unimportant, why do people get so  upset when the Confederate flag is honored. Because we all know, that  the MEANING behind a  flag screams our values, our beliefs, and  our future commitments. 

  _DJA

Sunil Ramalingam <sunilramalingam at hotmail.com> wrote:  And by your logic, Donovan, those with nothing to hide should not mind 
opening their bags, vehicles, and homes to searches by the police.  They 
should welcome warrantless searches of these, as well as monitoring of their 
email and phone conversations by the NSA.  If they're loyal, why object to 
such intrusions?

It is silly to think that somehow good governance follows because the pledge 
is recited.  Did the City Council's performance improve after they started 
saying the Pledge at meetings four years ago?  Wasn't the ludicrous Topless 
Ordinance enacted within the last four years?  The decision to pour money 
into the gym?  That was certainly in the last four years.  When former Mayor 
Comstock told residents in the neighborhood near the proposed ballfields to 
wear earplugs, was that inspired by the Pledge?  Was that responsive 
governance?

I honestly don't know how often the Pledge is recited by the President or 
Congress, but I don't see them serving our interests with either the war in 
Iraq or by running up staggering deficits.  I'd prefer they spend less time 
on the pledge, and more time avoiding bone-headed policies.

I won't be judging this council on the basis of whether they start their 
meetings with the Pledge of Alliegance.  I'll judge them on the basis of 
their responsiveness to the public and by the quality of their decisions.  I 
am more interested in what they do after the meeting starts than whether 
they can chant in unison at the beginning.

Sunil

>From: Donovan Arnold 
>To: John Dickinson , "'Phil Nisbet'" 
>
,        nchaney at moscow.com
>CC: aaronament at moscow.com, vision2020 at moscow.com, johnd at moscow.com,        
>blambert at ci.moscow.id.us, jweber at ci.moscow.id.us,        "'Linda Pall'" 
>, bstout at ci.moscow.id.us
>Subject: RE: [Vision2020] City Council and the Pledge
>Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2006 23:37:17 -0800 (PST)
>
>John and Nancy,
>
>   I want to thank you for having the courage to write Vision2020 and 
>publicly address the issue of the Pledge of Allegiance.
>
>   However, I want to say that it saddens my heart and upsets my stomach  
>that you have removed the pledge of allegiance to our flag from your  
>bi-monthly meetings. I strongly believe that this is a step in the  wrong 
>direction, particularly at this time.
>
>  Granted, the  pledge is abused, misused, uttered with content, 
>repetition, and  without meaning to many, and its purpose is lost on many 
>more. But  regardless, the pledge was meant to illustrate to the public 
>your  loyalty to the people. It is a reminder to the corruptible, to  
>politicians that forget why they are there after many years of service,  
>and to those about to cast a vote to spite a political enemy or help a  
>personal friend, that their vote and loyalty belongs to and for all the  
>PEOPLE of Moscow, the people of Idaho, and the people of the United  
>States.
>
>  With all of the corruption, back room deals, and  dishonest politicians 
>in our mists, I believe it is important that  every elected official make a 
>public statement before casting a vote  that they acknowledge publicly WHY 
>and for WHO they are casting their  vote.
>
>  I am sorry to hear, Councilman Dickinson, that saying  the pledge twice a 
>month is too much for you. I for one feel that we  should be honored to say 
>it at least as much.
>
>  The irony  here is that we force our children every school day to take a 
>loyalty  to the nation when they know not the meaning of the word, and the  
>politicos that need to remind themselves and the people why they are  
>elected to office, excuse themselves from such commitments.
>
>   Mayor Cheney, Councilman Dickinson, and the other member of the  
>council, if you feel your oath to this city is unquestionable, if you  have 
>  unquestionable loyalty to  this nation, if you do not  question your 
>pride in this nation,  then their should be no  question to your 
>willingness to say the pledge twice a month that  children say five times a 
>week.
>
>   Sincerely,
>
>   Donovan J Arnold
>Proud United States Citizen and Moscow Resident

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