[Vision2020] Doug Jones Says It Clearly
g. crabtree
jampot at adelphia.net
Fri Jan 20 12:18:35 PST 2006
Joe, You have covered a lot of ground with your post. I'll have to take it
in small bites. The "minding of other peoples business" which, for the sake
of brevity I will refer to as nannyism from now on, is apparent in your
first sentence.You do not know that a supper wal mart will drive away
business, but this is a concern for the business, not you. Compete, adapt,
or die. Protecting the precious little shops that you want to shop at on my
dime and at the expense of another business is nannyism plain and simple.
With regard to long term planning and the infliction of will, this really
boils down to a difference in world view. While I realize that there must be
some plan to keep hazardous chemical plants and hog farms out of residential
areas and so forth, I don't think that every change in land use and every
potential business should be up for scrutiny by the rest of the herd. Giving
every breathing soul a say in everyone else's plans is democracy at its
worst. Having some grand twenty year comprehensive plan to chart how a
community will be (come hell of high water) is laughable. Over the long haul
Moscow should grow more organically rather than trying to force future
property owners and business people into a mold developed in the past. The
lightest possible hand should be used with regard to inflicting your will on
someone else.
As to your question about my stance on women in the military, I would have
thought it was clear that I was stating my personal opinion not inflicting
my will. There are reasoned rationales for my opinion that I wont bore you
with here but suffice it to say that I think that there is a world of
difference between having an opinion and minding someone else's business.
Just because I don't care for the color my neighbor chose to paint his
house, I don't run to the nearest authority and demand a change. No business
minding here.
I would like to go into more depth with my reasons for the attitudes I give
voice to on this forum but I cant type and I have a life and a full time job
so needless to say this is a little time consuming for me. Perhaps we can
rail away at each other over a beer sometime where the hunt & peck problem
wont get in the way.
Take care,
Gary
----- Original Message -----
From: <joekc at adelphia.net>
To: "g. crabtree" <jampot at adelphia.net>
Cc: "Michael" <metzler at moscow.com>; <vision2020 at moscow.com>
Sent: Friday, January 20, 2006 6:56 AM
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Doug Jones Says It Clearly
Dear Mr. Crabree,
How is it that those who want no Super Wal-Mart are restricting choices –
“seem intent on minding other folks business,” as you say – when we already
HAVE a Wal-Mart yet a Super Wal-Mart will actually drive away businesses to
which many of us CHOOSE to go?
I really wish you would stop characterizing all of those who are against NSA
being downtown and a Super Wal-Mart coming into town as being against choice
and trying to inflict their will on others.
I am for long-term planning, not short term decision making based on cost
and convenience. I am for deciding whether or not a school should be in the
downtown area before it gets there, and for thinking clearly about whether a
Super Wal-Mart will ruin the town I love before it happens. Maybe I’m wrong
that Moscow is worse with a college downtown or that I will be worse off
with a Super Wal-Mart 1/2 mile from my house. I can live with knowing this.
I just want to be part of the process before it takes place and to have some
say in how Moscow develops. But I want you to be part of that process too,
Mr. Crabtree. I’m not against the democratic process. I am simply for
recognizing and sticking to a comprehensive plan for the development of the
city. I am for locating debate on the comprehensive plan in public settings
that occur before any change is implemented, as opposed to deciding what to
do after the fact. I am against backroom dealings that benefit a few at the
expense of others.
One more question: How can you say in one breath that “women shouldn't be
soldiers” yet in another say you “tire of people who seem intent on minding
other folks business” – and not notice the conflict between these two
claims?
Best, Joe
---- "g. crabtree" <jampot at adelphia.net> wrote:
> Greetings, Metzler. I think that you are still playing tether ball. It
> would seem from the previous posts that you have sent me that I spend a
> lot of time making you scratch your noggin and wonder about my motives. I
> am really not sure what to say to clear things up for you. I have no
> hidden agenda and aside from some sarcasm, mean exactly what I say. I am a
> non kirker who thinks that women shouldn't be soldiers. I don't give a
> damn about homosexuality as long as they don't demand special privilege
> for it. I haven't got a clue about Jesus' plan or what God's judging
> criteria will be. I do know that I tire of people who seem intent on
> minding other folks business, whether it be trailer courts, schools
> downtown, or Wal-Mart. As to the social categories comment, I have to
> admit that I am confused and don't know what you mean. Perhaps a plainly
> put question would help, assuming that I didn't blunder into the answer
> with this message.
>
> All the best,
> gc
> From: Michael
> To: vision2020 at moscow.com
> Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2006 8:29 PM
> Subject: [Vision2020] Doug Jones Says It Clearly
>
>
> gc,
>
>
>
> Hi crabtree. Just a quick note: I'm not sure I'm getting you. I'm a
> kirker who thinks women shouldn't be soldiers, that homosexuality is
> contrary to the creational (and new creation) design plan of God, and that
> any liberal agnostic who doesn't have Jesus is going to be judged by God.
> I think you might be confusing social categories a little bit. Or am I
> entirely off base here?
>
>
>
> Take care,
>
> Michael Metzler
>
>
>
> That would be great! How about it Ms. W? We could all draw ourselves up
> into a big cyber-circle and you could regale us with a tale of how Christ
> Church and the big bad Doug "dun u rong." Its been simply days and days
> since we heard some variation on that story. I would hate to forget why it
> is that their license to breathe our good "progressive" air should be
> revoked.
>
>
>
> gc
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>
> From: Michael
>
> To: vision2020 at moscow.com
>
> Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2006 6:24 PM
>
> Subject: [Vision2020] Doug Jones Says It Clearly
>
>
>
> Gabe,
>
>
>
> Wow; I wonder what could have happened then. After all of your love,
> what would have driven her away? Have you asked her that? If her reasons
> don't seem sufficient to you, are they meaningless?
>
>
>
> Michael Metzler
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> _____________________________________________________
> List services made available by First Step Internet,
> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
> http://www.fsr.net
> mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
> ¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯
---- "g. crabtree" <jampot at adelphia.net> wrote:
> Greetings, Metzler. I think that you are still playing tether ball. It
> would seem from the previous posts that you have sent me that I spend a
> lot of time making you scratch your noggin and wonder about my motives. I
> am really not sure what to say to clear things up for you. I have no
> hidden agenda and aside from some sarcasm, mean exactly what I say. I am a
> non kirker who thinks that women shouldn't be soldiers. I don't give a
> damn about homosexuality as long as they don't demand special privilege
> for it. I haven't got a clue about Jesus' plan or what God's judging
> criteria will be. I do know that I tire of people who seem intent on
> minding other folks business, whether it be trailer courts, schools
> downtown, or Wal-Mart. As to the social categories comment, I have to
> admit that I am confused and don't know what you mean. Perhaps a plainly
> put question would help, assuming that I didn't blunder into the answer
> with this message.
>
> All the best,
> gc
> From: Michael
> To: vision2020 at moscow.com
> Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2006 8:29 PM
> Subject: [Vision2020] Doug Jones Says It Clearly
>
>
> gc,
>
>
>
> Hi crabtree. Just a quick note: I'm not sure I'm getting you. I'm a
> kirker who thinks women shouldn't be soldiers, that homosexuality is
> contrary to the creational (and new creation) design plan of God, and that
> any liberal agnostic who doesn't have Jesus is going to be judged by God.
> I think you might be confusing social categories a little bit. Or am I
> entirely off base here?
>
>
>
> Take care,
>
> Michael Metzler
>
>
>
> That would be great! How about it Ms. W? We could all draw ourselves up
> into a big cyber-circle and you could regale us with a tale of how Christ
> Church and the big bad Doug "dun u rong." Its been simply days and days
> since we heard some variation on that story. I would hate to forget why it
> is that their license to breathe our good "progressive" air should be
> revoked.
>
>
>
> gc
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>
> From: Michael
>
> To: vision2020 at moscow.com
>
> Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2006 6:24 PM
>
> Subject: [Vision2020] Doug Jones Says It Clearly
>
>
>
> Gabe,
>
>
>
> Wow; I wonder what could have happened then. After all of your love,
> what would have driven her away? Have you asked her that? If her reasons
> don't seem sufficient to you, are they meaningless?
>
>
>
> Michael Metzler
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> _____________________________________________________
> List services made available by First Step Internet,
> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
> http://www.fsr.net
> mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
> ¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯
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