[Vision2020] what the Bible really teaches (was DouglasWilsononwomen)

Tue Jan 17 12:10:25 PST 2006

Good point, but - he tends to "preach" in cycles and this is just a 
re-cycling of old material.

I guess when you know it all, seen it all, said it all, you can't help but 
repeat it all - no matter how many times its wrong.

J  :]

>From: "Art Deco" <deco at moscow.com>
>To: "Vision 2020" <vision2020 at moscow.com>
>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] what the Bible really teaches (was 
>DouglasWilsononwomen)
>Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2006 07:31:46 -0800
>
>I wonder if this new foray/rant of the Cultmaster on women might stem from 
>his wondering who really wears the pants in his own family.  Perhaps his 
>childish blog entry is an over-compensation/compartmentalization to relieve 
>the pain of the creeping cognizance that his wife is an expert at 
>manipulating him to achieve her goals while making him think they are his 
>goals.  Perhaps at his advancing age and health deterioration Dr. Grauke 
>will prescribe a testosterone patch for Wilson.
>
>
>Art Deco (Wayne A. Fox)
>deco at moscow.com
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Phil Nisbet" <pcnisbet1 at hotmail.com>
>To: <joanopyr at earthlink.net>
>Cc: <vision2020 at moscow.com>
>Sent: Tuesday, January 17, 2006 7:08 AM
>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] what the Bible really teaches (was Douglas 
>Wilsononwomen)
>
>
> > Hey Joan
> >
> > You and keely are missing the best question.  If women are not able or 
>are
> > barred from action, what is Deborah doing being a Judge, a prophet and 
>for
> > that matter what the heck is she doing being a General of the Armies?  
>Why
> > would G-d give her victory on Tabor of he was dead set against women in 
>such
> > roles?
> >
> > Then from the same section, how do you like Jael?  Nothing like a tent 
>peg
> > to the brain pan to end a military career.  Point being that she is 
>praised
> > for doing what she could to insure victory.
> >
> > Obviously there was no consideration that a woman's place was in the 
>home if
> > Ephrim could chose as its person to judge the tribal unit was a woman.
> > Also, the poem "The Song of Deborah", the oldest known Hebrew poetry and 
>one
> > of the oldest portions of Tanahk makes Deborah one of the oldest writers 
>of
> > scripture.
> >
> > If Deborah's management was criticalally wrong, why did G-d grant fourty
> > years of peace following her winning of the battle?
> >
> > Phil Nisbet
> >
> >
> >>From: Joan Opyr <joanopyr at earthlink.net>
> >>To: Vision2020 Moscow <vision2020 at moscow.com>
> >>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] what the Bible really teaches (was Douglas 
>Wilson
> >>onwomen)
> >>Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2006 23:01:44 -0800
> >>
> >>
> >>On 14 Jan 2006, at 23:05, keely emerinemix wrote:
> >>
> >>>If we take Jesus at his word and follow his example, we'll see that 
>sexism
> >>>in the church is even worse than sexism outside of it, because it 
>purports
> >>>to have the stamp of approval of the One who proclaimed through Paul 
>that
> >>>"there is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, neither male
> >>>nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus."  (Gal. 3:28)  Christ
> >>>came to reverse the effects of the Fall, not to make sure that its more
> >>>odious manifestations continue in robust display.  I'm sure many Kirk
> >>>women disagree with me, and that's fine.  But freedom in Christ can 
>never
> >>>be diminished by the men around us, and those men who attempt to 
>curtail
> >>>the abundant life of women in Christ will have much to answer for.
> >>
> >>Keely is again spot on.  According to Genesis 3:16, "To the woman, He 
>said,
> >>'I will greatly increase your pangs in childbearing, in pain you shall
> >>bring forth children, yet your desire shall be for your husband, and he
> >>will rule over you.'"  Woman's submission to man is a punishment for
> >>Original Sin.  What it is not is the divine ideal (Eden), and it is not 
>a
> >>Biblical reflection of biological determinism.  To answer Michael's
> >>observation re: Doug's pilot parable, I would suggest that biological
> >>determinism is not a road any Christian theologian really wants to 
>travel.
> >>How does the praying mantis fit into the divine order?  After mating, 
>the
> >>male makes a lovely dinner for the female  -- husband a la mode.  And 
>among
> >>arachnids?  Devouring hubby is not uncommon.  Drones serve no purpose
> >>beyond mating; when they're done, their wings fall off and they die.  In
> >>prides of lions, flocks of chickens, herds of deer -- only one male is
> >>required.  I have ten happy hens and two roosters.  The thing is, I 
>don't
> >>need two roosters, so guess who's coming to dinner?  Foghorn Leghorn.
> >>
> >>Further, if the natural world reflects God's will, then how does Michael
> >>(or, for that matter, Doug) explain the more than 300 species that 
>engage
> >>in homosexual behavior?  From penguins to dolphins to bonobo monkeys,
> >>homosexual behavior is quite common.  In nature, homosexual behavior is
> >>good, clean fun.  Brokeback Mountain?  Try Brokeback Zoo.
> >>
> >>[This might sound odd coming from a lesbian, but I don't think human 
>males
> >>are superfluous to requirements.  I like men; I have many, many male
> >>friends with whom I enjoy spending time -- time free of any silly
> >>flirtations, sexual tension, or wifely jealousy.  It's great!  I do 
>believe
> >>that I like men, genuinely like them, better than do many straight 
>married
> >>women.  Men are good fun, and I've found that they're usually willing to
> >>lend you their truck or their chain-saw or their snow-blower.  Yay men!
> >>And yay butch lesbians!]
> >>
> >>To argue that women are biologically (or Biblically) unfit for certain 
>jobs
> >>like fighter pilot -- well, nonsense.  Sexual dimorphism has very little
> >>meaning in a modern technological society.  No man, I don't care how big 
>or
> >>macho he is, has ever been a match hand-to-paw for a polar bear, a 
>tiger,
> >>or even a determined Doberman.  Why is humankind on top of the food 
>chain?
> >>Because we're smart; because we're big-brained tool users, male and 
>female
> >>alike.  To limit just over half of your population to kinder, kirke, 
>kuche
> >>simply because they are born female (and because you are a misogynist) 
>is
> >>not only a waste, it's an abomination.
> >>
> >>Joan Opyr/Auntie Establishment
> >>www.joanopyr.com
> >>
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>_____________________________________________________
>  List services made available by First Step Internet,
>  serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
>                http://www.fsr.net
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