[Vision2020] Quantum Mechanics Debate
pcnisbet1 at hotmail.com
Tue Feb 21 11:59:04 PST 2006
What the humping hades?
I have never in my life made any statement that Einstein had any person do
the math for him on General Relativity. I have not a blue clue who the
Grossman you refer to is.
As for Heisenberg, I quoted directly from the American Institute for
Physics, the AIP, on their history of Quantum Mechanics.
>From the AIP site;
Heisenberg set himself the task of finding the new quantum mechanics upon
returning to Göttingen from Copenhagen in April 1925. Inspired by Bohr and
his assistant, H.A. Kramers, in Copenhagen, Pauli in Hamburg, and Born in
Göttingen, Heisenberg's intensive struggle over the following months to
achieve his goal has been well documented by historians. Since the electron
orbits in atoms could not be observed, Heisenberg tried to develop a quantum
mechanics without them. He relied instead on what can be observed, namely
the light emitted and absorbed by the atoms. By July 1925 Heisenberg had an
answer, but the mathematics was so unfamiliar that he was not sure if it
made any sense. Heisenberg handed a paper on the derivation to his mentor,
Max Born, before leaving on a month-long lecture trip to Holland and England
and a camping trip to Scandinavia with his youth-movement group. After
puzzling over the derivation, Born finally recognized that the unfamiliar
mathematics was related to the mathematics of arrays of numbers known as
"matrices." Born sent Heisenberg's paper off for publication. It was the
breakthrough to quantum mechanics.
Together with his other assistant, Pascual Jordan, Born worked toward the
further development of a quantum mechanics based upon the abstract
mathematics of matrices. After Heisenberg returned from his youth-movement
travels, the Göttingen work resulted in a famous "three-man paper" setting
forth the details of a new matrix-based quantum mechanics, the "matrix
mechanics." With the introduction of additional concepts (electron "spin"
and Pauli's "exclusion principle"), Heisenberg, Born, Jordan, Pauli, and
others showed that the new quantum mechanics could account for many of the
properties of atoms and atomic events.
Now that seems pretty clear to me to be indicative that Heisenberg did not
understand the math of Matrix mechanics or His Boss, Max Born would not have
assigned it all to Pascual Jordan. As I said before the paper first
delineating Quantum mechanics was a Three Man Paper, not a one man
So if you want your buddies to pick a fight with the Ameroican Institute for
Physics on this, feel free to direct them to Marc Brodsky the AIP's
As I noted, you gave a hard copy of what? Peer review, as you bloody well
know, is selected by the writer and the actual review data is what one gets
in return, names or no. All I have is your word as what you actually
submitted and what the response were. Thats not peer review and you blood
well know it.
>From: nickgier at adelphia.net
>To: vision2020 at moscow.com
>Subject: [Vision2020] Quantum Mechanics Debate
>Date: Tue, 21 Feb 2006 14:36:00 -0500
> > Greetings:
> > I can see that meeting Phil Nisbet face to face did not help his anger
>management problem. I can also see that because of a wireless connection
>that cuts in and out here in Mexico that the message that I sent did not
>have the following items:
> > 1) I disguised the participants as X, Y, and Z. I will now identify the
>referees as Phil Deutchman and George Patsokos, both of the UI physics
>department. Neither of them knew the names of X, Y, and Z.
> > 2) Phil told me that a mathematician by the name of Grossman did the
>mathematics for Einsteinâs general relativity theory, so that takes most
>of the power out of Philâs swipe at Heisenberg for doing not doing his
>own mathematics for his theory.
> > 3) I suggest that rather than continuing his rant here on V2020 that
>Phil continue the debate with Prof. Patsokos. Prof. Deutchman has retired
>to Sandpoint but he was on campus for a well received talk on Einstein on
>Feb. 7. I gave him a hard copy of the debate and he gave me his answer
>after he had read it.
> > Good luck, Phil. I'm finished on this topic.
> > Nick Gier
> List services made available by First Step Internet,
> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
> mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
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