[Vision2020] Plan in Action

Fri Feb 17 19:28:15 PST 2006

WOW, After looking back at what I wrote and then reading what you managed to infer from it I count myself lucky that you haven't implicated me in all the great conspiracies of the twentieth century. Could you read between the lines a little closer and see if  perhaps the "Great American Novel" might have been in there also. I could really use the money. I would make some small additional attempt to clarify my previous remarks but obviously all you would be able to derive from it is an admission that I yearn to deliver our community up to the Great Deceiver and I am not ready to be found out just yet.

As to the interaction that you imagine that you had with me at my place of employment there is one thing that you should be aware of. There are two people in that shop. One will share his opinions on any subject at any time with next to no provocation and delight in your dismayed response. The other will reluctantly discuss matters of physical security if you express a serious interest. I am the latter. I offer you the same advise I'd offer the vice president, positively identify your target. (cheap shot, I know but I'm responding to a two bit argument)

G. Crabtree
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Art Deco 
  To: Vision 2020 
  Sent: Friday, February 17, 2006 2:42 PM
  Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Plan in Action

  Crabtree writes:

  "Mr. Metzler, Please reread the actual words that I used in my post. I am not "castigating"you. I am not calling on you to answer charges. I am not accusing you of any evil, specific or otherwise. What I said was that I do not understand your particular complaint with regard to Christ Church and Doug Wilson. Nothing more and nothing less. It *seems* a matter internal to the church and of no interest to those outside it. Providing information on your own web page for those who wish to seek it is a reasonable thing. Someone else taking it and attempting to influence my opinion and the rest of V2020 does not."

  Perhaps, I do not properly understand English, but part of what Crabtree asserts is:

  1.    CCC doings are only of interest to those inside.
  2.    I and the rest of V 2020 have no interest in this issue.
  3.    [Tacit]  Do not post any more on this topic since it will affect no one, especially me.

  Crabtree just previously posted:

  "To look at my posts and take from them any hint of "banning" or censorship is to completely and I suspect deliberately misread what I have written. A fairly common tactic among the I loathe CC crowd. For me to suggest an alternative to "fords" endless carrying on is hardly totalitarian, anti "civil liberties," or "despotic." Over blown rhetoric in the extreme."

  Exercise:  Take the old adage, "If it looks like a duck, waddles like a duck, and quacks like a duck, it is a duck."  Substitute the word "censorship" for "duck" in the quote just after rereading the first part of this post.

  If Gray Crabtree honestly believes that what Michael, J Ford, Keely Emerine-Mix, Sally Kirkland, and others have been posting is not going to influence some of the rest on V2020" or that there are none that are interested in the doings of the cult on V 2020, then perhaps he needs a reality check.

  Since Michael is currently a member of the CCC and J Ford was once a member, their words have great significance and impact for many of us.  If they do not impact Crabtree, that is fine, he can use his delete key.  He doesn't have try to persuade Michael and J Ford to take their comments elsewhere and despotically attempt to deprive those on V 2020 who are interested.

  As a matter of fact, what both Michael and J Ford have ably done is to point out the huge disconnect/irreconcilable dissonance between the with the clear, cogent teachings of Jesus found in the words of the Gospels of Christ (Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John) and the words and actions of Christ church Cultmaster Douglas Wilson and some of followers like Comb-Over Courtney and Slowman Farris.

  I am sure there are many Christian members of V 2020 who consider the efforts of Michael and J Ford to be timely, important, and inspirational.  I am sorry that Crabtree doesn't and most likely never will.

  As another exercise for the interested reader:

  Read the following words of Jesus and then read Comb-Cover Courtney's web-blots and see if you can feel the explosive, shattering dissonance between Courtney's apologist writing on behalf of the cult and the use of the word "love" by Jesus below, and then ask yourself :  "Is this cult horrendously defaming, libeling, and slandering Jesus by calling themselves "Christian," and by arrogantly and fraudulently using His name in their title?"

  Romans 13

   9    ...'Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself;' 
  10    the love to the neighbour doth work no ill; the love, therefore, is the fulness of law.

  Judge Not

  Matthew 7:1 - 5  Young's Literal Translation of the Bible

  1     'Judge not, that ye may not be judged

  2     for in what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged, and in what measure ye measure, it shall be measured to you.

  3     'And why dost thou behold the mote that is in thy brother's eye, and the beam that is in thine own eye dost not consider?

  4     or, how wilt thou say to thy brother, Suffer I may cast out the mote from thine eye, and lo, the beam is in thine own eye?

  5     Hypocrite, cast out first the beam out of thine own eye, and then thou shalt see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.

  Art Deco (Wayne A. Fox)
  deco at moscow.com

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: g. crabtree 
  To: Michael ; vision2020 at moscow.com 
  Sent: Friday, February 17, 2006 10:35 AM
  Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Plan in Action

  Mr. Metzler, Please reread the actual words that I used in my post. I am not "castigating"you. I am not calling on you to answer charges. I am not accusing you of any evil, specific or otherwise. What I said was that I do not understand your particular complaint with regard to Christ Church and Doug Wilson. Nothing more and nothing less. It *seems* a matter internal to the church and of no interest to those outside it. Providing information on your own web page for those who wish to seek it is a reasonable thing. Someone else taking it and attempting to influence my opinion and the rest of V2020 does not.

  Sincerely,
  G. Crabtree
    ----- Original Message ----- 
    From: Michael 
    To: vision2020 at moscow.com 
    Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2006 7:32 PM
    Subject: [Vision2020] Plan in Action

    Crabtree Writes:

    I have seriously tried to comprehend the dastardly deed that seems to have inflamed Mr. Metzler .it is just too arcane to understand how anyone outside the group could work up much of a lather over 

    it.

    Me:

    Mr. Crabtree, 

    If you wish to throw me into the heap of people you enjoy castigating here, please mention something specific so that I can answer your charges. I really don't care to get into any discussions with you, but I'm hoping you would give me the ability to defend myself by referencing some specific evil I've done that you are apparently very concerned about. 

    Thank you

    Michael Metzler

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