[Vision2020] Petition
Art Deco
deco at moscow.com
Fri Feb 17 19:20:27 PST 2006
Pat, et al,
Many years ago when I was very poor, I worked as a Tech I for the Minnesota
Department of Highways. At one time I was assigned to a construction survey
team. It was actually a very good job, paying decently, outside, and with a
crew boss with a real work ethic. The taxpayers got their money's worth out
of us. Often we ran instead of walked in pursuit of our tasks.
On occasion we needed to work on Saturdays in the summertime. The crew boss
had commitments for Saturday afternoons (read "golf") which meant we started
work at 3:30 AM to accommodate his schedule.
Since I was poor and had no car, I had to catch a ride on a bus at 2:10 AM
in the morning in downtown Minneapolis about an hour's walk from where I was
living. There was generally the same bunch of middle-aged and older riders
on the bus, all of whom seem to know each other well.
The conversation went something like this.
Rider A: They say Eisenhower was a communist.
Rider B: Yep.
Rider C: Um-Hummm!
[Pause]
Rider D: They say Kennedy is a communist.
Rider B: Yep.
Rider C: Um-Hummm!
[Pause]
Rider E: They say Hubert Humphrey is a communist.
Rider B: Yep.
Rider C: Um-Hummm!
[Pause]
Etc ...
Pat Kraut says: "I was told that Northwest gifts (sic) left because of rent
and so did hunters (sic)."
Request to Pat (and certain others):
If you wish for people to believe what you say, then please give your
sources and their credentials/titles/etc so that V 2020 readers can evaluate
the probability of the truth of your remarks, especially since in this case
you are disputing the accuracy of another poster's statements who apparently
did some research. Its not that I don't believe you, but I have no way of
assessing the worth of the information you contribute without knowing
something about from whence it came.
I noticed earlier today a post from Donovan making a bunch of statements
about the PEM and some of its occupants. That post did not mention any
sources and was contradictory to other information which I believe has a
high probability of being true, hence I drew my own conclusions.
However, Pat before you get your shooting irons out and head out to Saddle
Ridge steaming with eyes ablaze, I do not equate you with Donovan. Though
you and I have different worldviews and very different life experiences, I
believe that you are basically an honest, good-hearted person. I have
noticed that some of your actual observations on the local scene,
particularly about traffic and law enforcement problems, agree with mine.
It is just that in my dotage, I need all the help I can get to determine the
truth of statements that I might sometime have to depend upon for my words
and/or actions.
Thank you.
Art Deco (Wayne A. Fox)
deco at moscow.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Pat Kraut" <pkraut at moscow.com>
To: "vision2020" <vision2020 at moscow.com>
Sent: Friday, February 17, 2006 5:10 PM
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Petition
>I agree with the wonderment of wanting to put in a Super anything when the
> mall has not been able to keep corp stores because they don't make enough.
> I
> was told that Northwest gifts left because of rent and so did hunters. I
> know of local owners who were forced out so that they could bring in corps
> years ago it isn't anything new. Yes, every few years they go through it
> all
> again...so, I am not sure what Walmart sees that makes them want to put in
> a
> new store of any size.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "J Ford" <privatejf32 at hotmail.com>
> To: <vision2020 at moscow.com>
> Sent: Friday, February 17, 2006 10:04 AM
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Petition
>
>
> First of all, Hunter's Candy left PM a while ago, not because of the rent
> but because Mr. Hunter wanted to be able to be closed on Sundays and the
> mall management did not like that idea. If stores are in the mall, they -
> by contract - have to be open whenever the mall is open. He also says
> there
> many issues that had been unresolved for years that he simply did not want
> to have to deal with anymore; so when his countract came up for renewal,
> he
> chose to leave.
>
> Marketplace Gifts left due to a lack of sales; "The last couple of years
> were not good." Their coroporate offices are in trouble, as are a lot of
> businesses around the country, and the decision to close "the smaller
> stores
> around the country" was made. The Spokane stores have closed or are in
> the
> process of closing, as well.
>
> There are already two/three stores asking about that space. No decisions
> have been made, but it could be another gift store or a plus-size women's
> clothing store will go in there.
>
> Winco may not be accessable to the bus riders, but only because the bus no
> longer goes through the mall lot - NOT because of anything that Winco
> did/didn't do.
>
> And I just talked to the mall office - the PM is NOT up for sale. "Its
> just
> a rumor. No truth to it." Take that for what its worth.
>
> With very few exceptions, most of the stores in the mall are NOT locally
> owned - they are part of a chain or corporation.
>
> Like I said before, malls go through change all the time. I remember
> five/six years ago, PM went through this same turn-over routine. It
> simply
> happens.
>
>
>
> J :]
>
>
>
>
>>From: Donovan Arnold <donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com>
>>To: Bruce and Jean Livingston <jeanlivingston at turbonet.com>,
>>vision2020 <vision2020 at moscow.com>
>>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Petition
>>Date: Fri, 17 Feb 2006 09:05:29 -0800 (PST)
>>
>>Bruce,
>>
>> The reason the Mall is losing stores is because the owners are trying
>> to
>>sell it. So they are jacking up their rent on locally owned shops,
>>banning
>>local businesses from contracting with them and giving longer and cheaper
>>contracts with large corporate chain stores. This increases the value and
>>appeal of the Mall to the buyer.
>>
>> The locally owned businesses, like Marketplace Gifts and Hunter's Candy
>>are not leaving because of lack of sales, they are leaving because the
>>owners raise their rent every month until they find it ridiculously
>>priced
>> to stay there. After the Mall removes the locally owned businesses, it
>>re-contracts the space to chain store, like Ross.
>>
>> I am surprised that all these people attacking Wal-Mart and pretending
>>to care about locally owned businesses do not care local businesses are
>>being squeezed out of their territory in favor of big chain corporations.
>>Win-co is also no longer accessible to those that need the bus--often
>>those that need the lower grocery prices most.
>>
>> Take Care,
>>
>> _DJA
>>
>>Bruce and Jean Livingston <jeanlivingston at turbonet.com> wrote:
>>Assuming arguendo that what you were "told" has a basis in fact, isn't it
>>just as likely, more likely, that the reason that the share-owners in a
>>retail-based business (that owns and operates the mall and is all about
>>making money) fear that a Super Wal-Mart may impact their business and
>>make it less profitable, and therefore that it is time to get out now
>>(sell the mall), before vacancies in the mall become greater and the
>>business they are trying to sell goes down further in value?
>>
>> Bruce Livingston
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Pat Kraut" <pkraut at moscow.com>
>> To: "vision2020" <vision2020 at moscow.com>
>> Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2006 10:25 PM
>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Petition
>>
>>
>>
>>| No, I am saying that we don't have a good reputation towards business
>>and it
>>| is spreading...did you know the mall was for sale? I was told that
>>they
>>had
>>| 'read the handwriting on the wall' and I believe it could very well be
>>true.
>>|
>>| ----- Original Message -----
>>| From: <joekc at adelphia.net>
>>| To: "Pat Kraut" <pkraut at moscow.com>
>>| Cc: "vision2020" <vision2020 at moscow.com>
>>| Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2006 8:52 PM
>>| Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Petition
>>|
>>|
>>| Is the suggestion that businesses are leaving the mall because some
>>folks
>>| don't want a Super Wal-Mart in town? I just don't get it.
>>|
>>| --
>>| Joe Campbell
>>|
>>| ---- Pat Kraut <pkraut at moscow.com> wrote:
>>|
>>| =============
>>| Today I needed to buy a red shirt for a granddaughter who will perform
>>at
>>| the jazz festival and has already outgrown her red Christmas shirt.
>>| Gottschalks was the only store in town with anything red in her size.
>>If had
>>| more time I'd be going to Spokane. There are so many stores in the
>>mall
>>| closing that I wonder what it will look like in the future. Are we
>>going to
>>| get a boarded up mall? Do any of you know that the mall is for sale by
>>its
>>| management company? The attitude toward business here is going to shut
>>us
>>| down not save us from anything.
>>|
>>|
>>| ----- Original Message -----
>>| From: "Chasuk" <chasuk at gmail.com>
>>| To: "Vision2020" <vision2020 at moscow.com>
>>| Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2006 8:24 PM
>>| Subject: [Vision2020] Petition
>>|
>>|
>>| I went into Wal-Mart today, and there was a young lady sitting at a
>>| table soliciting those who entered to sign her petition for a Wal-Mart
>>| Supercenter. I take this as an indication that Wal-Mart is feeling
>>| the heat.
>>|
>>| _____________________________________________________
>>| List services made available by First Step Internet,
>>| serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
>>| http://www.fsr.net
>>| mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
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>>|
>>| _____________________________________________________
>>| List services made available by First Step Internet,
>>| serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
>>| http://www.fsr.net
>>| mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
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>>|
>>|
>>| _____________________________________________________
>>| List services made available by First Step Internet,
>>| serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
>>| http://www.fsr.net
>>| mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
>>|
>>|_____________________________________________________
>> List services made available by First Step Internet,
>> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
>> http://www.fsr.net
>> mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
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>>
>>
>>
>>---------------------------------
>>Brings words and photos together (easily) with
>> PhotoMail - it's free and works with Yahoo! Mail.
>
>
>>_____________________________________________________
>> List services made available by First Step Internet,
>> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
>> http://www.fsr.net
>> mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
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>
> _________________________________________________________________
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> _____________________________________________________
> List services made available by First Step Internet,
> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
> http://www.fsr.net
> mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
> ¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯
>
> _____________________________________________________
> List services made available by First Step Internet,
> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
> http://www.fsr.net
> mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
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