[Vision2020] Gore's Foreign Policy

Thu Feb 16 20:42:50 PST 2006

On 2/16/06, Matt Decker <mattd2107 at hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> Andreas you are not paying attention.  Gore said torture/mistreatmentof
> muslims inside the US as in our borders.
>
> As in Abu Ghraib, this happened 2 years ago and the soldiers responsible are
> doing there time behind bars. If you listen to the reports those photos
> released are from 2 years ago, not new ones.

The "a few bad apples" theory holds water like a colander. The
policies that led to Abu Ghraib were ordered in the highest levels of
geovernment. The office President's Office of Legal Counsel produced a
memo condoning torture, so long as it is not intended to cause pain
equivalent to that caused by organ failure or death. It *can* cause
organ failure or death -- it simply can't be intended to. General
Geoffrey Miller, the general who ordered that detainees be treated
like "dogs", and was sent in to "Gitmoize" Abu Ghraib, has been
promoted. In a fair world, he would be locked in Leavenworth or the
Hague.

In this regard, our government is not simply negligent but malicious.

And evidence of six more murders at Abu Ghraib -- what the new
photographs show -- have been released: murders that were not
investigated

> Im sure there is still some going on around the world. What I am saying is
> Gores comments do not make the situation any better, in fact one could
> argue, just killed some more of our troops.

I cannot dispute that more of our soldiers have been killed because of
the conduct of some other Americans. But the blame is not on those who
exposed the atrocities ordered by our executive branch: the blame is
on those that ordered them. The buck stops with the President, and
it's time he be held accountable. Holding him accountable is not
treason, but the very definition of patriotism.

And *even if it were a lie*, even if these were false accusations
levied against a president in a time of war, it would not be treason.
It takes more than words to constitute treason.

Hearing eliminationist rhetoric like this come out of fellow
Americans, especially fellow Americans that care to claim about
"freedom," makes me sick. It is exactly this sort of freedom -- the
freedom to criticize our own government -- that we must take the most
seriously: not just my right to criticize President Bush, but your
right to criticize Clinton or Kennedy or whomever else you please. The
real threat to our freedom doesn't come from cave-dwelling
medievalists with pathetic delusions of grandeur: it comes from people
who believe that the moral superiority of American comes from who we
*are*, not what we *do*.

-- ACS

> Matt
>
> >From: Andreas Schou <ophite at gmail.com>
> >To: Matt Decker <mattd2107 at hotmail.com>
> >CC: chapandmaize at hotmail.com, vision2020 at moscow.com
> >Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Gore's Foreign Policy
> >Date: Thu, 16 Feb 2006 13:16:35 -0800
> >
> >On 2/16/06, Matt Decker <mattd2107 at hotmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > James,
> > >
> > > My problem with Gore over in Saudi Arabia is not that he is over there
> > > trying to make amends with middle eastern countries, and our
> >administration.
> > > I have a problem with him stating we are torturing muslims in the US. At
> > > this point these are accusations and have no or little proof. I would
> >just
> > > hope that our former VP would realize these comments do not help our
> > > situation.
> >
> >Matt --
> >
> >You're not paying attention.
> >
> >The Sidney Morning Herald just published new photographs from Abu
> >Ghraib: photographs showing shotgun wounds, forced nudity, religious
> >desevrations, and six more uninvestigated corpses. At Guanatanamo, we
> >used waterboarding, dogs, temperature extremes, religious desecration,
> >forced urination and defecation, and death threats on largely
> >innovcent detainees. These are not wild conspiracy theores. These are
> >government reports.
> >
> >This is not to mention what we're doing in the worldwide network of
> >secret CIA prisons -- a program we know nothing about except that it
> >apparently exists. The fact that you pretend that these things are not
> >happening is blindness, callousness, or ignorance. I suggest that you
> >remedy whichever of the three is the case.
> >
> >-- ACS
> >
> > > Matt
> > >
> > > >From: "James Reynolds" <chapandmaize at hotmail.com>
> > > >To: vision2020 at moscow.com
> > > >Subject: [Vision2020] Gore's Foreign Policy
> > > >Date: Thu, 16 Feb 2006 08:56:24 -0800
> > > >
> > > >Al Gore was following the only path toward resolution of the long-term
> > > >miss-steps that our Government has employed in the Mideast. His talk in
> > > >Saudi Arabia should not (as it is by some) be looked at as anti-America
> >but
> > > >instead is a first step in reconciling the relationship problems
> >between
> > > >the Mideast and the USA, American foreign policy has contributed to. We
> > > >must return to the premise that diplomacy and honest open discourse are
> >the
> > > >tools needed to rectify our political problems abroad. Our government's
> > > >reliance on direct military force against foreign governments and
> >military
> > > >assistance to dissidents against those same governments has contributed
> > > >manifestly to the problems that are now threatening the security of the
> > > >Mideast and the American people's own freedom. Our government needs to
> > > >change its emphasis from the current militaristic attitude to one of
> > > >diplomacy before it is too late.
> > > >
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