[Vision2020] Plan in Action

Thu Feb 16 17:58:46 PST 2006

Reverend Keely,

      It is one thing to  use V2020 for the purposes of raising issues with the actions and  intended actions of a group or organization. However, it is entirely  something different to use V2020 or any public forum to continuously  and  personally attack another person or persons because you  disagree with those actions or beliefs.

       Frankly, there is no more creditability left  with any attacks on Wilson from V2020, NONE; in part because the claims  against Wilson have become so ludicrous, biased, and often wrong, and  in part because the volume is so overwhelming that we drown it out for  information that is actually relevant to our daily lives. 

      Most of us do not agree with Wilson or share many of  his political or religious beliefs. But the obsession with him by some  posters has gotten way out of hand-especially from some that will write  slanderous material and not use their real name on the forum. Your  attempt to defend that with the Bible or Christ does your title and His  good name little justice.

  _DJA

keely emerinemix <kjajmix1 at msn.com> wrote:  OK, Mr. Crabtree, I'll grant that you were within a few yards of Doug Wilson 
and suffered no ill effect.  In fact, I'll match you and then some:  I was 
once in a room alone with Wilson -- his open-doored office -- and suffered 
not one bruise, bump, scratch, or owie, nor was my psyche terribly damaged.  
No weapons were displayed, no threats were made, and no one insulted the 
other person's mother.  We even shook hands.  Without a hidden blade or even 
a joy buzzer.

Fascinating, indeed.  But not terribly relevant.  Why?

Because those of us who revere the Gospel of Jesus Christ  see that the 
leadership of Moscow's most prominent "Christian" church group represents it 
in the most irresponsible, ugly, damaging and divisive manner most of us 
have ever seen.  That makes us far more grieved than angry, but anger 
certainly is justified.  When the most visible group in town claims Christ's 
name and then continuously behaves badly -- very badly -- those who owe 
their lives to that Name will call them on it.  Or they should; the 
evangelical and mainline community's near-silence on the subject is 
disheartening.  Either way,  those who hate religion will hate the hypocrisy 
and sneering arrogance they see in a religious group, and those who love 
their faith will hate it even more.  Those who hate those who hate the 
hypocrisy and arrogance will likely continue to mock them.

I'm sure, Mr. Crabtree, that you'll understand why your approval matters 
very little to me, but I wish you well nonetheless and simply ask that you 
accord a measure of charity if not to me, then to others struggling against 
the Kirk's influence in Moscow.   If it were just about a wacky, 
irrepressibly puckish guy named Doug Wilson, you'd be right.  It isn't, 
though, and you're not.

keely

From: "g. crabtree" 
To: "J Ford" 
, 
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Plan in Action
Date: Thu, 16 Feb 2006 12:52:35 -0800

All right J:], Let's assume for just a moment and just for the sake of 
arguement that you are  absolutley 100% spot on with your daring expose of 
the ultimate evil that is Douglas Wilson. What would you have me do? Move to 
Bolivia? Paint myself lavender and yodel latvian sea shantys? Here is a hot 
tip for you. Mr Wilson has no more power over my life than you do.  On 
several occasions I have been within 25 yards of his emminence and he did 
not manage to suck out my soul and replace it with that which is truely 
evil, lima beans & okra.  Maybe he's waiting till your warning has worn off 
and I'm unsuspecting, crafty fellow that he is. (but I doubt it)

gc
----- Original Message ----- From: "J Ford" 

To: 
Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2006 9:17 AM
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Plan in Action

>So you're opinion is that exposure of someone who is "in a seat of power", 
>for the liar, deceiver, miscreant, and just plain not nice guy that Mr. 
>Wilson is, is a waste of my time?  Well, it is my time and I certainly will 
>continue to make sure people are informed whenever I see things that I feel 
>are just plain and simply wrong.
>
>Let's just say this person was a legislator or even a president and he was 
>"explaining" away missing documentation (of any kind) as being the fault of 
>someone else's "honest mistake" - oh, wait - Nixon pulled that one didn't 
>he?
>
>And to reverse your "analogy" if you find this person so facinating and so 
>right-on-target, I guess I don't understand why you are NOT in his church 
>at this time.
>
>J  :]
>
>
>
>
>>From: "g. crabtree" 
>>To: "J Ford" 
,
>>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Plan in Action
>>Date: Thu, 16 Feb 2006 07:18:41 -0800
>>
>>Mr/s. Ford, After spending a considerable amount of time reading your 
>>posts, Mr. Metzlers web site, And Mr. Wilson's blog I have finally come to 
>>the inevitable conclusion that you think that Wilson is not the minister 
>>for you. I really appreciate your sharing all the minutia of your decision 
>>but spending such an inordinate amount of time trying to convince folks 
>>who are not your fellow congregants seems kind of obsessive. Endless 
>>droning  about the trials of Mr. Morin and "letters not sent" may be of 
>>some interest to some (hard to believe) but I'm guessing not many. Far be 
>>it from me to tell you what to do or think but might I suggest you give 
>>some thought to doing what people who have become disenchanted with their 
>>current faith community have done for ages. Find or found a new one more 
>>to your liking. Reverend Ford  has a certain ring to it and who knows, a 
>>church that features lots of pithy phrases in foreign tongues (Gaelic?) 
>>and Winney the Pooh references might just catch on. Heck, throw in a bunch 
>>of scatological comments and inappropriate sexual references and Mr. 
>>Hansen and Mr. Fox will almost certainly jump on board. How about as a 
>>congregational mascot, tigger dressed up as a lecherous leprechaun?
>>
>>I'm just sayin'
>>gc
>>
>>----- Original Message ----- From: "J Ford" 

>>To: 
>>Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2006 10:58 PM
>>Subject: [Vision2020] Plan in Action
>>
>>
>>>Continuing the "Letter Not Sent" line, the following comments have been 
>>>added to Doug's "explanation" (translated: excuse) for his actions.  If 
>>>find it very interesting that after ten years (+) of this, the new excuse 
>>>is JUST now coming out.  Riachtanas teagascs a plean - Need teaches a 
>>>plan.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>    Doug, your line of thinking makes no sense. It goes like this: They 
>>>couldn't be trying to deceive because too many people would remember that 
>>>the letter was never sent, so they must have made an honest mistake 
>>>because NONE of them remembered the letter was never sent..... Is this 
>>>YOUR explanation of what they did, or have you received this explanation 
>>>from them and you're passing it on? If you haven't talked to them then 
>>>you're just guessing, you weren't there, and you have no way of knowing 
>>>why they did what they did. If you have talked to them and are passing on 
>>>what they told you, then you're depending on their memory. Memories which 
>>>your earlier argument admits are faulty.
>>>
>>>        M K - 2/15/2006 9:14:17 PM
>>>
>>>    M, first your question about the signatures. They either noticed they 
>>>were not there, and thought the letter was sent out with (something like) 
>>>verbal approval because everyone was not physically present. That kind of 
>>>thing happens. I am not physically going to sign this post. Or they 
>>>didn't notice that the signatures were missing. They either didn't 
>>>notice, and made this honest mistake, or they noticed and made the honest 
>>>mistake. When it comes to signatures, in this situation, all kinds of 
>>>weird things have happened. It is understandable to not see that a 
>>>signature is missing in the flurry of answering a battery of charges. But 
>>>Bob Callihan signed his "this is only a proposal" letter, and it has been 
>>>three years with us pointing at it, and Terry still can't see it. Can you 
>>>see it? Signatures are funny.
>>>
>>>        Douglas Wilson - 2/15/2006 9:23:33 PM
>>>
>>>    Mark, give it a break. You have two options: (a) the elders made a 
>>>simple error because they trusted the notebook that Pastor Wilson gave 
>>>them OR (b) the elders are conspiring against their brothers in Christ 
>>>out of a vengeful spirit. We, as mere men, cannot see other men's hearts. 
>>>We have no hard and fast evidence against them (for example, a video 
>>>recording of them knowingly conspiring and laughing at the trouble they 
>>>would cause their brothers). They tell us it is a mistake, and we have to 
>>>take that in good faith because they are our brothers in Christ . If it 
>>>is from a vengeful spirit, they have much more to fear from God than they 
>>>do from us. Like I said before, give it up. Love "thinketh no evil" (1 
>>>Cor. 13:5). All men, Christians or not, should be considered innocent 
>>>until proven guilty.
>>>
>>>        D C. M - 2/15/2006 9:33:47 PM
>>>
>>>    Mark, here is the "line of thinking," in plain English. These men are 
>>>my Christian brothers and scrupulously honest. I believe them. But let us 
>>>say that someone out there is suspicious of these honorable men for 
>>>whatever personal reasons (bitterness, ideology, internet-fever, 
>>>whatever). For that person, who does not want to simply accept the 
>>>reasonable explanation offered, here is the deal. If they knew the letter 
>>>was not sent, and publicly claimed that it *was* sent, and they claimed 
>>>this in a controversy with Terry Morin, knowing that he would call them 
>>>on it, along with any number of others who knew it wasn't sent, but they 
>>>tried it anyway, it would follow from this that these men are stupid. 
>>>These men are not stupid. Therefore it was an honest mistake. If it was 
>>>an attempt to pull something, we would have brazened it out. Terry has 
>>>made a number of claims from that time without signatures. We could have 
>>>just done the same. But as soon as the mistake was pointed out, we 
>>>realized the mistake, apologized, and dropped it. This was a good 
>>>example. "Dropping it" is a spiritual exercise that a lot of people I 
>>>know could profit from.
>>>
>>>        Douglas Wilson - 2/15/2006 9:37:13 PM
>>>
>>>    Doug, your belief that Doug Jones, Chris Schlect and Jim Nance are 
>>>honest is plain English. I understand that statement, and I agree with 
>>>it. When you say your explanation(I'm assuming it's your explanation and 
>>>not theirs)of the actions of the committee is 'reasonable' you are NOT 
>>>speaking plain English, because your explanation isn't reasonable. I've 
>>>shown you where it isn't reasonable. If you choose not to further explain 
>>>yourself that's fine. But your explanation doesn't become reasonable just 
>>>because you say it is.
>>>
>>>        M K - 2/15/2006 10:24:55 PM
>>>
>>>    David, there are lots of options all of us have. Each of us uses his 
>>>own free will to decide which of them to follow. Take care, Mark
>>>
>>>        M K - 2/15/2006 10:28:33 PM
>>>
>>>    M, all you are doing is illustrating why it is pointless to try to 
>>>explain things like this to people who don't really want an explanation. 
>>>You believe that it is "unreasonable" to say someone saw signatures where 
>>>there are none. So is it equally unreasonable to not see a signature when 
>>>it is sitting there as plain as Bob could make it? And Mark, I am afraid 
>>>I am going to have to *demand* an explanation from you on this. And as 
>>>soon as you offer it, I will shake my head, tsk for a moment, and 
>>>announce that your explanation is no explanation at all. In fact, I will 
>>>not really hear your explanation of Terry's inability to see Bob's 
>>>signature because I will be too busy shaking the pom poms for my team in 
>>>this debate. And if you protest that your explanation "was too" 
>>>reasonable, I will just say nope. Not reasonable. Would that be a good 
>>>way to proceed?
>>>
>>>        Douglas Wilson - 2/15/2006 11:37:14 PM |
>>>
>>>J  :]
>>>
>>>_________________________________________________________________
>>>Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's 
>>>FREE! http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/
>>>
>>>_____________________________________________________
>>>List services made available by First Step Internet, serving the 
>>>communities of the Palouse since 1994.   http://www.fsr.net 
>>>mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
>>>¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯
>>
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>Don't just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search! 
>http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/
>
>_____________________________________________________
>List services made available by First Step Internet, serving the 
>communities of the Palouse since 1994.   http://www.fsr.net 
>mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
>¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯

_____________________________________________________
List services made available by First Step Internet, serving the communities 
of the Palouse since 1994.                 http://www.fsr.net                
                 mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯

_________________________________________________________________
On the road to retirement? Check out MSN Life Events for advice on how to 
get there! http://lifeevents.msn.com/category.aspx?cid=Retirement

_____________________________________________________
 List services made available by First Step Internet, 
 serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.   
               http://www.fsr.net                       
          mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯

---------------------------------
 Yahoo! Mail
 Use Photomail to share photos without annoying attachments.
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://mailman.fsr.com/pipermail/vision2020/attachments/20060216/118d8730/attachment-0001.htm