[Vision2020] Plan in Action

J Ford privatejf32 at hotmail.com
Thu Feb 16 17:43:05 PST 2006


Wow!!!  You are a Stór (Treasure).  Thank you.

To Mr. C:  Even a small thorn causes festering.

J  :]




>From: "keely emerinemix" <kjajmix1 at msn.com>
>To: jampot at adelphia.net, privatejf32 at hotmail.com, vision2020 at moscow.com
>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Plan in Action
>Date: Thu, 16 Feb 2006 14:14:16 -0800
>
>OK, Mr. Crabtree, I'll grant that you were within a few yards of Doug 
>Wilson and suffered no ill effect.  In fact, I'll match you and then some:  
>I was once in a room alone with Wilson -- his open-doored office -- and 
>suffered not one bruise, bump, scratch, or owie, nor was my psyche terribly 
>damaged.  No weapons were displayed, no threats were made, and no one 
>insulted the other person's mother.  We even shook hands.  Without a hidden 
>blade or even a joy buzzer.
>
>Fascinating, indeed.  But not terribly relevant.  Why?
>
>Because those of us who revere the Gospel of Jesus Christ  see that the 
>leadership of Moscow's most prominent "Christian" church group represents 
>it in the most irresponsible, ugly, damaging and divisive manner most of us 
>have ever seen.  That makes us far more grieved than angry, but anger 
>certainly is justified.  When the most visible group in town claims 
>Christ's name and then continuously behaves badly -- very badly -- those 
>who owe their lives to that Name will call them on it.  Or they should; the 
>evangelical and mainline community's near-silence on the subject is 
>disheartening.  Either way,  those who hate religion will hate the 
>hypocrisy and sneering arrogance they see in a religious group, and those 
>who love their faith will hate it even more.  Those who hate those who hate 
>the hypocrisy and arrogance will likely continue to mock them.
>
>I'm sure, Mr. Crabtree, that you'll understand why your approval matters 
>very little to me, but I wish you well nonetheless and simply ask that you 
>accord a measure of charity if not to me, then to others struggling against 
>the Kirk's influence in Moscow.   If it were just about a wacky, 
>irrepressibly puckish guy named Doug Wilson, you'd be right.  It isn't, 
>though, and you're not.
>
>keely
>
>
>From: "g. crabtree" <jampot at adelphia.net>
>To: "J Ford" <privatejf32 at hotmail.com>, <vision2020 at moscow.com>
>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Plan in Action
>Date: Thu, 16 Feb 2006 12:52:35 -0800
>
>All right J:], Let's assume for just a moment and just for the sake of 
>arguement that you are  absolutley 100% spot on with your daring expose of 
>the ultimate evil that is Douglas Wilson. What would you have me do? Move 
>to Bolivia? Paint myself lavender and yodel latvian sea shantys? Here is a 
>hot tip for you. Mr Wilson has no more power over my life than you do.  On 
>several occasions I have been within 25 yards of his emminence and he did 
>not manage to suck out my soul and replace it with that which is truely 
>evil, lima beans & okra.  Maybe he's waiting till your warning has worn off 
>and I'm unsuspecting, crafty fellow that he is. (but I doubt it)
>
>gc
>----- Original Message ----- From: "J Ford" <privatejf32 at hotmail.com>
>To: <vision2020 at moscow.com>
>Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2006 9:17 AM
>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Plan in Action
>
>
>>So you're opinion is that exposure of someone who is "in a seat of power", 
>>for the liar, deceiver, miscreant, and just plain not nice guy that Mr. 
>>Wilson is, is a waste of my time?  Well, it is my time and I certainly 
>>will continue to make sure people are informed whenever I see things that 
>>I feel are just plain and simply wrong.
>>
>>Let's just say this person was a legislator or even a president and he was 
>>"explaining" away missing documentation (of any kind) as being the fault 
>>of someone else's "honest mistake" - oh, wait - Nixon pulled that one 
>>didn't he?
>>
>>And to reverse your "analogy" if you find this person so facinating and so 
>>right-on-target, I guess I don't understand why you are NOT in his church 
>>at this time.
>>
>>J  :]
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>From: "g. crabtree" <jampot at adelphia.net>
>>>To: "J Ford" <privatejf32 at hotmail.com>,<vision2020 at moscow.com>
>>>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Plan in Action
>>>Date: Thu, 16 Feb 2006 07:18:41 -0800
>>>
>>>Mr/s. Ford, After spending a considerable amount of time reading your 
>>>posts, Mr. Metzlers web site, And Mr. Wilson's blog I have finally come 
>>>to the inevitable conclusion that you think that Wilson is not the 
>>>minister for you. I really appreciate your sharing all the minutia of 
>>>your decision but spending such an inordinate amount of time trying to 
>>>convince folks who are not your fellow congregants seems kind of 
>>>obsessive. Endless droning  about the trials of Mr. Morin and "letters 
>>>not sent" may be of some interest to some (hard to believe) but I'm 
>>>guessing not many. Far be it from me to tell you what to do or think but 
>>>might I suggest you give some thought to doing what people who have 
>>>become disenchanted with their current faith community have done for 
>>>ages. Find or found a new one more to your liking. Reverend Ford  has a 
>>>certain ring to it and who knows, a church that features lots of pithy 
>>>phrases in foreign tongues (Gaelic?) and Winney the Pooh references might 
>>>just catch on. Heck, throw in a bunch of scatological comments and 
>>>inappropriate sexual references and Mr. Hansen and Mr. Fox will almost 
>>>certainly jump on board. How about as a congregational mascot, tigger 
>>>dressed up as a lecherous leprechaun?
>>>
>>>I'm just sayin'
>>>gc
>>>
>>>----- Original Message ----- From: "J Ford" <privatejf32 at hotmail.com>
>>>To: <vision2020 at moscow.com>
>>>Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2006 10:58 PM
>>>Subject: [Vision2020] Plan in Action
>>>
>>>
>>>>Continuing the "Letter Not Sent" line, the following comments have been 
>>>>added to Doug's "explanation" (translated: excuse) for his actions.  If 
>>>>find it very interesting that after ten years (+) of this, the new 
>>>>excuse is JUST now coming out.  Riachtanas teagascs a plean - Need 
>>>>teaches a plan.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>    Doug, your line of thinking makes no sense. It goes like this: They 
>>>>couldn't be trying to deceive because too many people would remember 
>>>>that the letter was never sent, so they must have made an honest mistake 
>>>>because NONE of them remembered the letter was never sent..... Is this 
>>>>YOUR explanation of what they did, or have you received this explanation 
>>>>from them and you're passing it on? If you haven't talked to them then 
>>>>you're just guessing, you weren't there, and you have no way of knowing 
>>>>why they did what they did. If you have talked to them and are passing 
>>>>on what they told you, then you're depending on their memory. Memories 
>>>>which your earlier argument admits are faulty.
>>>>
>>>>        M K - 2/15/2006 9:14:17 PM
>>>>
>>>>    M, first your question about the signatures. They either noticed 
>>>>they were not there, and thought the letter was sent out with (something 
>>>>like) verbal approval because everyone was not physically present. That 
>>>>kind of thing happens. I am not physically going to sign this post. Or 
>>>>they didn't notice that the signatures were missing. They either didn't 
>>>>notice, and made this honest mistake, or they noticed and made the 
>>>>honest mistake. When it comes to signatures, in this situation, all 
>>>>kinds of weird things have happened. It is understandable to not see 
>>>>that a signature is missing in the flurry of answering a battery of 
>>>>charges. But Bob Callihan signed his "this is only a proposal" letter, 
>>>>and it has been three years with us pointing at it, and Terry still 
>>>>can't see it. Can you see it? Signatures are funny.
>>>>
>>>>        Douglas Wilson - 2/15/2006 9:23:33 PM
>>>>
>>>>    Mark, give it a break. You have two options: (a) the elders made a 
>>>>simple error because they trusted the notebook that Pastor Wilson gave 
>>>>them OR (b) the elders are conspiring against their brothers in Christ 
>>>>out of a vengeful spirit. We, as mere men, cannot see other men's 
>>>>hearts. We have no hard and fast evidence against them (for example, a 
>>>>video recording of them knowingly conspiring and laughing at the trouble 
>>>>they would cause their brothers). They tell us it is a mistake, and we 
>>>>have to take that in good faith because they are our brothers in Christ 
>>>>. If it is from a vengeful spirit, they have much more to fear from God 
>>>>than they do from us. Like I said before, give it up. Love "thinketh no 
>>>>evil" (1 Cor. 13:5). All men, Christians or not, should be considered 
>>>>innocent until proven guilty.
>>>>
>>>>        D C. M - 2/15/2006 9:33:47 PM
>>>>
>>>>    Mark, here is the "line of thinking," in plain English. These men 
>>>>are my Christian brothers and scrupulously honest. I believe them. But 
>>>>let us say that someone out there is suspicious of these honorable men 
>>>>for whatever personal reasons (bitterness, ideology, internet-fever, 
>>>>whatever). For that person, who does not want to simply accept the 
>>>>reasonable explanation offered, here is the deal. If they knew the 
>>>>letter was not sent, and publicly claimed that it *was* sent, and they 
>>>>claimed this in a controversy with Terry Morin, knowing that he would 
>>>>call them on it, along with any number of others who knew it wasn't 
>>>>sent, but they tried it anyway, it would follow from this that these men 
>>>>are stupid. These men are not stupid. Therefore it was an honest 
>>>>mistake. If it was an attempt to pull something, we would have brazened 
>>>>it out. Terry has made a number of claims from that time without 
>>>>signatures. We could have just done the same. But as soon as the mistake 
>>>>was pointed out, we realized the mistake, apologized, and dropped it. 
>>>>This was a good example. "Dropping it" is a spiritual exercise that a 
>>>>lot of people I know could profit from.
>>>>
>>>>        Douglas Wilson - 2/15/2006 9:37:13 PM
>>>>
>>>>    Doug, your belief that Doug Jones, Chris Schlect and Jim Nance are 
>>>>honest is plain English. I understand that statement, and I agree with 
>>>>it. When you say your explanation(I'm assuming it's your explanation and 
>>>>not theirs)of the actions of the committee is 'reasonable' you are NOT 
>>>>speaking plain English, because your explanation isn't reasonable. I've 
>>>>shown you where it isn't reasonable. If you choose not to further 
>>>>explain yourself that's fine. But your explanation doesn't become 
>>>>reasonable just because you say it is.
>>>>
>>>>        M K - 2/15/2006 10:24:55 PM
>>>>
>>>>    David, there are lots of options all of us have. Each of us uses his 
>>>>own free will to decide which of them to follow. Take care, Mark
>>>>
>>>>        M K - 2/15/2006 10:28:33 PM
>>>>
>>>>    M, all you are doing is illustrating why it is pointless to try to 
>>>>explain things like this to people who don't really want an explanation. 
>>>>You believe that it is "unreasonable" to say someone saw signatures 
>>>>where there are none. So is it equally unreasonable to not see a 
>>>>signature when it is sitting there as plain as Bob could make it? And 
>>>>Mark, I am afraid I am going to have to *demand* an explanation from you 
>>>>on this. And as soon as you offer it, I will shake my head, tsk for a 
>>>>moment, and announce that your explanation is no explanation at all. In 
>>>>fact, I will not really hear your explanation of Terry's inability to 
>>>>see Bob's signature because I will be too busy shaking the pom poms for 
>>>>my team in this debate. And if you protest that your explanation "was 
>>>>too" reasonable, I will just say nope. Not reasonable. Would that be a 
>>>>good way to proceed?
>>>>
>>>>        Douglas Wilson - 2/15/2006 11:37:14 PM |
>>>>
>>>>J  :]
>>>>
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>>>
>>
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