[Vision2020] Pat Kraut, area churches, and teachings abouthomosexuality

[g. crabtree]

Mr. Campbell, You wrote..

"Lastly, I do think that both you and Pat underestimate what I consider to 
be the evil of Doug Wilson. Part of it is that you focus on the second 
matter, completely forgetting about the third one. It is one thing to 
believe — as Pat apparently does — that the Bible ‘says’ that ‘homosexuality’ 
is wrong. I would dispute that (not that you couldn’t find supporting words 
for the claim, but that those words best convey Christ’s message). Here we 
are back to the second matter, a disagreement about interpretation of a holy 
text. But interpretation is one thing. If the CC/NSA crowd did nothing more 
than collect bizarre religious views (forgetting, of course about the first 
matter) I would ignore them completely. I myself have a collection of 
bizarre religious beliefs, so I see no harm in this. BELIEF is one thing; 
ACTION is another. Once those beliefs are manifested in some actish 
fashion — whether it is in the form of changing Moscow’s laws about proper 
dress or !
 speaking out in an offensive and repulsive way — I feel it is my right, in 
fact my obligation, to respond."

In a paragraph that starts off with "the evil of..." and closes with Once 
those beliefs are manifested in some actish (?) fashion-whether its in the 
form of changing Moscow's laws about proper dress... " one might reasonably 
infer the point I was trying to make.

As to my consistency, where in my post exactly did I suggest that you 
shouldn't be able to criticize anyone? Where did I refer to anyone as 
intolerant? Where the heck am I inconsistant? Run your gums till the cows 
come home. I wouldn't have it any other way. I think that once again you 
read way more into what I write then was actually there but then again so 
what else is new?

Yours for free speech & improved reading comprehension,
G. Crabtree


From: <joekc at adelphia.net>
To: "g. crabtree" <jampot at adelphia.net>
Cc: <vision2020 at moscow.com>
Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2006 9:18 AM
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Pat Kraut, area churches, and teachings 
abouthomosexuality


Mr. Crabtree,

Perhaps I could have been clearer but I never claimed that Wilson was evil 
because he attempted to change Moscow’s laws about proper dress. I said that 
this action was a public one and gave me a right to comment and critique his 
views. Just as my attempts to keep Wal-Mart out of Moscow are public actions 
and give you the right to critique my views. The evil, I claimed, came in 
the form of Wilson’s deliberately offensive comments toward gays and 
lesbians. No one has the right to be deliberately offensive. (Which is why I 
appologized to you about my own deliberately offensive, public comments 
directed toward you.)

Also, I wish you would show some consistency. If Wilson’s comments are 
protected under the freedoms of speech and religion, then my criticisms of 
him are similarly covered. My comments and position are based on my own 
religious and moral viewpoints. It amazes me that you would let a man 
whitewash the history of American slavery under the name of ‘freedom’ yet 
call folks who criticize him ‘intolerant.’ What an incredible double 
standard that is.

Furthermore, if Wilson’s lobbying efforts have no affect on my freedoms (a 
point I have never denied), then my lobbying efforts have no affect on your 
freedoms. So stop making comments to the effect that the anti-Wal-Mart crowd 
is trying to restrict freedom. By your own words we cannot do so, it is the 
elected officials – and ultimately the voters – who will keep Super Wal-Mart 
out of Moscow, if in fact that happens. No one is restricting anyone's 
freedoms here. This is how our democratic process works. Again, just try to 
follow your own general principles and show a little consistency.

--
Joe Campbell

---- "g. crabtree" <jampot at adelphia.net> wrote:

=============
Mr. Campbell seems to forget that while Mr. Wilson was fore square in favor
of changes to the ordinances pertaining to proper dress, he did not change
them. For that we had seven elected officials. Mr. Wilson and his
congregation very actively lobbied for a change in much the same way that
others are trying to make sure our fair flower of a town won't be sullied by
a Wal-Mart superstore. Somehow this makes him "evil" and the no to WM crowd
the chosen ones?

gc