[Vision2020] Pat Kraut, area churches, and teachings about homosexuality

[Bill London]

P-
Of course Islamic Extremism exists.
Do you recognize that current US policy in Iraq has been a very effective
recruitment program for Islamic Extremism?
The American occupation is daily adding fuel to this bigger trans-national
war.
BL






----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Phil Nisbet" <pcnisbet1 at hotmail.com>
To: <joanopyr at earthlink.net>
Cc: <vision2020 at moscow.com>
Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2006 1:41 AM
Subject: RE: [Vision2020] Pat Kraut, area churches,and teachings about
homosexuality


> Joan and Pat
>
> I know that that is not the case for you and Rose and several others,
Joan,
> but there are folks who really do attack almost anybody with a religious
> faith, some of whom post here.  Pat is sincere in her concerns.
>
> Pat, Joan and Rose and a number of other people who post here are not
> whistling Dixie when they say that their problem is with the outside of
> church actions of some groups.
>
> The post I made with regard to the subject was intended to ask those who
say
> that religion is an evil and a blight, why are they confining their
attacks
> to what some of them have referred to as the "Hebraic G-d"?  Jews and
> Christians are not stoning people to death any more, for all the grumbling
> of some.
>
> Both of you are compassionate people and I find it hard to believe that
> either of you would like to see public stoning, mutilation or any of that
> sort of justice here.  I know that Joan is as outraged as any with the
kinds
> of actions that are occurring in the pure Islamic Religious States and
from
> previous posts she has included that in her ire.
>
> I previously posted an article about a 16 year old girl who was hung by
the
> neck until dead at the end of a construction boom for promiscuity in Iran.
> Not one of the guys who slept with her got the rope.
>
> I have seen very westernly dressed exchange students at Winco, come in one
> day with friends and load up on beer and the next day they are into the
> store with the little lady, who is covered from head to toe with only eyes
> showing walking dutifully behind him.
>
> In Indonesia, Christians, Jews and Buddhists are routinely set upon by
> crowds of fanatics and hacked to death.
>
> The central government in Sudan, an Islamic law nation, has murdered close
> to 250,000 non-Moslems in a very planned genocide in Dafur.
>
> So, yes there is a culture war out there, but its not the minor skirmish
> happening in Moscow Idaho.  The extremist wing of Islam really does want
to
> convert the world at the edge of the sword and they feel perfectly
justified
> in doing so.  They make the Aryan Nations look like the boy scouts and
> unlike the weird skin head types, not many of us know enough about these
> guys to tell them from a red, white and blue American Moslem.
>
> If we pulled out of Iraq tomorrow morning, we are still going to be in a
war
> with Islamic Extremism.  We of the Western World, with our toleration and
> cultural diversity and religious freedoms are anathema to these guys.
What
> we stand for they do not want and they also do not want us as anything but
> second class citizens under their own Islamic Laws.
>
> Write the wrong cartoon, or book or spoof and regardless of where you are,
> they can and will target you.  They imposed a death sentence on a well
known
> film director in the Netherlands, rioted to keep a production of a play
> against honor killings from being shown in England and just threatened
> bombing of a Danish newspaper for the cartoon mentioned.  So this is not
> some problem in some distant corner of the world that we can seal
ourselves
> off from.  People are being killed in the Philippines, in Thailand, in
> Indonesia, in Sri Lanka, in Africa and in one heck of a lot of the rest of
> the world so that this group can impose its beliefs on the globe.
>
> I guess I have to ask all of you who post here, what's more important, the
> battles and quibbles we fight over at the margins here or trying to see
that
> Islamic Extremism does not prevail?  Have any of you figured out yet that
> our warring with each other simply frees these fanatics to pick us all
off?
>
> Phil Nisbet
>
> PS  This is not an indictment of the general Islamic community, because
the
> majority of moslems are indeed peace loving folks.  The problem is that
the
> fanatic arms of their religion make up a block of close to 100,000,000 who
> are not peace loving.  Appeasement ala Chamberlian in Muncih is no answer,
> because just as in 1938, the real war will end up on our doorstep.
>
>
>
> >From: Joan Opyr <joanopyr at earthlink.net>
> >To: Vision2020 Moscow <vision2020 at moscow.com>
> >Subject: [Vision2020] Pat Kraut, area churches,and teachings about
> >homosexuality
> >Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2006 23:09:50 -0800
> >
> >Dear Visionaries:
> >
> >Pat Kraut seems to be buying into the Christ Church party line that they
> >are being "targeted" for their position on homosexuality, e.g., that
their
> >property tax and zoning problems have something -- anything -- to do with
> >the Church's homophobic agenda.  This is bunkum.  It's a straw man, a red
> >herring, a load of old hooey.  I know of no other church in town that has
> >tried seven ways to Sunday to evade paying any property tax owed or has
> >attempted to set up an educational institution where educational
> >institutions are not allowed -- not the Lutherans, not the Mormons, not
the
> >Catholics, and not the real PCUSA Presbyterians.  If Doug Wilson and
> >company weren't running so damned many scams you need a set of bingo
cards
> >to keep up with them, no one would give a tinker's cuss about what they
> >preach.  Freedom of religion means the freedom to believe and to proclaim
> >whatever ridiculous, wonderful, impossible, irrational, miraculous,
> >Biblically-inerrant goofy thing you like.  What it does not mean is
freedom
> >to break, bend, or twist the law.  There's a difference between religious
> >persecution and righteous prosecution, and Doug Wilson is down on his
hands
> >and knees, working like the dickens to erase that distinction.  Good
thing
> >it's written in ink and not chalk, eh?
> >
> >Speaking of which, I see that one of Ralph Reed's affiliates has just
> >gotten caught with its hands in the Faith-based Initiatives till -- 
buying
> >luxury cars for its ministers/executives with our tax dollars.  Imagine,
> >good Christian folk, fleecing Uncle Sam.  Talk about shock and awe . . .
> >
> >Joan Opyr/Auntie Establishment
> >www.joanopyr.com
> >
> >_____________________________________________________
> >List services made available by First Step Internet, serving the
> >communities of the Palouse since 1994.                 http://www.fsr.net
> >                              mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
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