[Vision2020] Pat Kraut, area churches, and teachings about homosexuality

[Pat Kraut]

Absolutely right! I watched a Frontline last night wherein the people said
exactly that and they are not just talking. They want to take us over by any
means. They are supposed to be in charge and we are not, simple as that. And
they will use any means to get there and they are doing it everyday. Just
like Bush said, in a school, on trains, in homes or maybe even the Olympics
again! (No Bush didn't say that but I think about it.) I talked with a young
man from Iran who knew nothing about Munich but knew that we supported
Israel. He thought I was lying! We need the Patriot Act and we need to be
listening to calls and emails. If we don't we will be very sorry and we will
know, KNOW exactly who to blame. And while I am at this the appearance of
Cindy Sheehan at the State of the Union was just plain rude. Common curtesy
has failed the democrats and people know it.
And we have been down this road attacking one church and it is only a matter
of time before we go after others for whatever reasons. I am not comfortable
with the local attack on a church or group even with the 'parking, zoneing'
attack when I really do not think it has much to do with that. Protest as
much as you like but it isn't comfortable.


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Phil Nisbet" <pcnisbet1 at hotmail.com>
To: <joanopyr at earthlink.net>
Cc: <vision2020 at moscow.com>
Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2006 1:41 AM
Subject: RE: [Vision2020] Pat Kraut, area churches,and teachings about
homosexuality


Joan and Pat

I know that that is not the case for you and Rose and several others, Joan,
but there are folks who really do attack almost anybody with a religious
faith, some of whom post here.  Pat is sincere in her concerns.

Pat, Joan and Rose and a number of other people who post here are not
whistling Dixie when they say that their problem is with the outside of
church actions of some groups.

The post I made with regard to the subject was intended to ask those who say
that religion is an evil and a blight, why are they confining their attacks
to what some of them have referred to as the "Hebraic G-d"?  Jews and
Christians are not stoning people to death any more, for all the grumbling
of some.

Both of you are compassionate people and I find it hard to believe that
either of you would like to see public stoning, mutilation or any of that
sort of justice here.  I know that Joan is as outraged as any with the kinds
of actions that are occurring in the pure Islamic Religious States and from
previous posts she has included that in her ire.

I previously posted an article about a 16 year old girl who was hung by the
neck until dead at the end of a construction boom for promiscuity in Iran.
Not one of the guys who slept with her got the rope.

I have seen very westernly dressed exchange students at Winco, come in one
day with friends and load up on beer and the next day they are into the
store with the little lady, who is covered from head to toe with only eyes
showing walking dutifully behind him.

In Indonesia, Christians, Jews and Buddhists are routinely set upon by
crowds of fanatics and hacked to death.

The central government in Sudan, an Islamic law nation, has murdered close
to 250,000 non-Moslems in a very planned genocide in Dafur.

So, yes there is a culture war out there, but its not the minor skirmish
happening in Moscow Idaho.  The extremist wing of Islam really does want to
convert the world at the edge of the sword and they feel perfectly justified
in doing so.  They make the Aryan Nations look like the boy scouts and
unlike the weird skin head types, not many of us know enough about these
guys to tell them from a red, white and blue American Moslem.

If we pulled out of Iraq tomorrow morning, we are still going to be in a war
with Islamic Extremism.  We of the Western World, with our toleration and
cultural diversity and religious freedoms are anathema to these guys.  What
we stand for they do not want and they also do not want us as anything but
second class citizens under their own Islamic Laws.

Write the wrong cartoon, or book or spoof and regardless of where you are,
they can and will target you.  They imposed a death sentence on a well known
film director in the Netherlands, rioted to keep a production of a play
against honor killings from being shown in England and just threatened
bombing of a Danish newspaper for the cartoon mentioned.  So this is not
some problem in some distant corner of the world that we can seal ourselves
off from.  People are being killed in the Philippines, in Thailand, in
Indonesia, in Sri Lanka, in Africa and in one heck of a lot of the rest of
the world so that this group can impose its beliefs on the globe.

I guess I have to ask all of you who post here, what's more important, the
battles and quibbles we fight over at the margins here or trying to see that
Islamic Extremism does not prevail?  Have any of you figured out yet that
our warring with each other simply frees these fanatics to pick us all off?

Phil Nisbet

PS  This is not an indictment of the general Islamic community, because the
majority of moslems are indeed peace loving folks.  The problem is that the
fanatic arms of their religion make up a block of close to 100,000,000 who
are not peace loving.  Appeasement ala Chamberlian in Muncih is no answer,
because just as in 1938, the real war will end up on our doorstep.



>From: Joan Opyr <joanopyr at earthlink.net>
>To: Vision2020 Moscow <vision2020 at moscow.com>
>Subject: [Vision2020] Pat Kraut, area churches,and teachings about
>homosexuality
>Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2006 23:09:50 -0800
>
>Dear Visionaries:
>
>Pat Kraut seems to be buying into the Christ Church party line that they
>are being "targeted" for their position on homosexuality, e.g., that their
>property tax and zoning problems have something -- anything -- to do with
>the Church's homophobic agenda.  This is bunkum.  It's a straw man, a red
>herring, a load of old hooey.  I know of no other church in town that has
>tried seven ways to Sunday to evade paying any property tax owed or has
>attempted to set up an educational institution where educational
>institutions are not allowed -- not the Lutherans, not the Mormons, not the
>Catholics, and not the real PCUSA Presbyterians.  If Doug Wilson and
>company weren't running so damned many scams you need a set of bingo cards
>to keep up with them, no one would give a tinker's cuss about what they
>preach.  Freedom of religion means the freedom to believe and to proclaim
>whatever ridiculous, wonderful, impossible, irrational, miraculous,
>Biblically-inerrant goofy thing you like.  What it does not mean is freedom
>to break, bend, or twist the law.  There's a difference between religious
>persecution and righteous prosecution, and Doug Wilson is down on his hands
>and knees, working like the dickens to erase that distinction.  Good thing
>it's written in ink and not chalk, eh?
>
>Speaking of which, I see that one of Ralph Reed's affiliates has just
>gotten caught with its hands in the Faith-based Initiatives till -- buying
>luxury cars for its ministers/executives with our tax dollars.  Imagine,
>good Christian folk, fleecing Uncle Sam.  Talk about shock and awe . . .
>
>Joan Opyr/Auntie Establishment
>www.joanopyr.com
>
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_____________________________________________________
 List services made available by First Step Internet,
 serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
               http://www.fsr.net
          mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
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