[Vision2020] Death threats over religious cartoons?

g. crabtree jampot at adelphia.net
Wed Feb 1 06:24:09 PST 2006 

Mr. Nisbet, Excellent example of one of the most pervasive double standards 
in the western world. I expect this post will be followed by one that trots 
out the tired, shop worn clichés including "religion of peace" and "a few 
bad apples." Don't get me wrong, Christians, Jews, and any number of other 
religious groups have plenty to answer for but giving Islam a bye is beyond 
all reason. Their willingness to bully should not exempt them from critical 
scrutiny and condemnation where called for.

G. Crabtree (now in hiding & suspicious of unmarked packages)

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Phil Nisbet" <pcnisbet1 at hotmail.com>
To: <deco at moscow.com>
Cc: <vision2020 at moscow.com>
Sent: Tuesday, January 31, 2006 9:13 PM
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Death threats over religious cartoons?


> Wayne
>
> Open discourse can include drawing cartoons which may not be complimentry 
> to the religion of another person.  When that is the case, the worst that 
> can happen to you are the standard idle threats.  This is significantly 
> different than having a fatwah issued calling for all good Muslims to kill 
> you on sight or for holy warriors to drive car bombs into the building 
> that publishes your paper.
>
> In all the concern I have seen that government and religion not mix, where 
> has anybody been with regards to the Islamic Student website calling for 
> and promiting conversion to Islam?  If any Christian group was promoting 
> religion on campus using Student activity funds we would hear holy hell 
> about it.
>
> When gays are hanged in Iran from construction craines, why the blind eye? 
> When they stone women to death for adultry or stone young girls to death 
> for flirting, where is the outrage?
>
> The thing is Wayne, you are wiling to accept Islamic folks actions that 
> are ten times worse than the CCers ever thought about being because 
> accepting them is a mark of your acceptance of cultural diversity.  If you 
> go out on a lmb and call their practices into the same kind of question 
> that you do people of more typical American religious views, you woud be 
> marked as a bigot.
>
> Doug Wilson may say he thinks Gays wil go to hell and he can even say he 
> thiks they should be stoned, but he will never have such power here. 
> Islamic Courts have the power to stone gays to death and use it.  Wilson 
> and company can only get following by convincing people to follow their 
> faith and stay with their church something that does not exactly make them 
> a growth industry from what I have seen to date.  The Islamic clerics in 
> one heck of a lot of countries have complete power to not only police 
> their own folks, they have the right to condemn to death any person of 
> another religions who they deem has caste a slander on their faith.
>
> Christians are not slughtering us who are not of their faith, but Islamic 
> Clerics are.  Tens of thousands of people are being murdered every year by 
> Islamic religious courts and by their overzealous adherents.  Not one peep 
> do I hear about the civil rights violation that that entails.
>
> So seeing the Danes scramble to give an apology that they would never dain 
> to give to any Christian or Jewish Group is interesting to me.  If our 
> local paper were to run a cartoon of the Prophet with a bomb for a hat, 
> would there be threats that the Daily News would be blown to smitherens? 
> Would you recommend that the Daily News Apologize for running such a 
> cartoon?
>
> Just wondering.
>
> Phil
>>From: "Art Deco" <deco at moscow.com>
>>To: "Vision 2020" <vision2020 at moscow.com>
>>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Death threats over religious cartoons?
>>Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2006 20:26:17 -0800
>>
>>Phil,
>>
>>There is hardly anything of substance spoke/written/drawn/etc on 
>>political, economic, social, and/or religious matters that will not offend 
>>someone. Just reading this list over a period of time and the reactions to 
>>various points of view should provide any reader with tons of proof of 
>>such an assertion.
>>
>>Even the most civil conversations on these matters can offend some.  That 
>>is the nature of human discourse, and it will continue for a variety of 
>>reasons, seeking truth, manipulating others, asserting power, 
>>exhibiting/protecting egotism just to name a few.
>>
>>That is why living in a country with freedom of expression is, for me, and 
>>I expect for you, one of life's greatest blessings.
>>
>>I can tell you that during the times I taught philosophy at the UI and 
>>actually during the semester I taught MIS in the College of Business, I 
>>received all kinds of threats, not to mention other related problems to 
>>deal with.  That also is the nature of discussing/exploring ontological 
>>problems.
>>
>>At his point in time no one owns the truth.  Many of us are sincerely 
>>trying to make a tiny bit of progress toward a better understanding of the 
>>universe, others not.  Open discourse, which is certainly offensive to 
>>some, is one of the most important tools in those attempts at progress.
>>
>>W.
>>
>>----- Original Message ----- From: "Phil Nisbet" <pcnisbet1 at hotmail.com>
>>To: <vision2020 at moscow.com>
>>Sent: Tuesday, January 31, 2006 6:23 PM
>>Subject: [Vision2020] Death threats over religious cartoons?
>>
>>
>>>I was wondering if those really really POed at Wilson and company had 
>>>read this particular controversy?  If one of our publications prints a 
>>>cartoon that Islamic folks do not like are we liable to attack on that 
>>>basis?
>>>
>>>By JAN M. OLSEN, Associated Press Writer
>>>Tue Jan 31, 5:38 PM ET
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>COPENHAGEN, Denmark - A Danish Muslim group Tuesday accepted an apology 
>>>from a newspaper that published offensive cartoons of the Prophet 
>>>Muhammad but said later that it had decided the statement was ambiguous.
>>>
>>>The group did not elaborate and it was unclear if there would be any 
>>>effect on protests and boycotts of Danish goods in Muslim countries.
>>>
>>>The offices of the newspaper Jyllands-Posten were briefly evacuated 
>>>Tuesday evening after an English-speaking person called in a bomb threat 
>>>to the switchboard, and an Internet statement purportedly from insurgents 
>>>in     Iraq urged attacks in Denmark and Norway, the first known call for 
>>>violent reprisals over the cartoons.
>>>
>>>The authenticity of the Internet posting in the name of the Mujahedeen 
>>>Army, which claimed to have shot down a U.S. helicopter in Iraq earlier 
>>>this month, could not be independently verified.
>>>
>>>Jyllands-Posten published 12 cartoons in September after asking artists 
>>>to depict Islam's prophet in what was described as a test of 
>>>self-censorship. The depictions included incendiary images such as 
>>>Muhammad wearing a turban shaped as a bomb with a burning fuse.
>>>
>>>A Norwegian newspaper reprinted the images this month.
>>>
>>>In a statement published late Monday, Jyllands-Posten apologized and said 
>>>it regretted offending Muslims. It stood by the decision to print the 
>>>cartoons, saying it was within Danish law.
>>>
>>>The drawings "were not intended to be offensive, nor were they at 
>>>variance with Danish law, but they have indisputably offended many 
>>>Muslims for which we apologize," the daily said Monday.
>>>
>>>Danish Muslims said Tuesday that they welcomed the apology. However, 27 
>>>Muslim groups met later in the day to discuss the statement and declared 
>>>it "ambiguous."
>>>
>>>"We lack a clear statement where the newspaper apologizes for the offense 
>>>and stand by it," said Ahmed Akkari, a spokesman for the groups.
>>>
>>>The Danish Muslims thanked Prime Minister Anders Fogh Rasmussen for 
>>>saying Monday evening that his government could not apologize on behalf 
>>>of a newspaper, but that he personally "never would have depicted 
>>>Muhammad, Jesus or any other religious character in a way that could 
>>>offend other people."
>>>
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>>
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