[Vision2020] Pat nails it on Iraq

[lfalen]

Debbi
For the most part I think this is a good post. You have explained why you responded as you did without getting insulting. We are all human.

Roger
-----Original message-----
From: debismith at moscow.com
Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2006 18:21:37 -0800
To: "Saundra Lund" sslund at roadrunner.com,  vision2020 at moscow.com
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Pat nails it on Iraq

> Given that Roger took me to task for a somewhat old e-mail, I think he may not have been 
> reading everything that comes through. Since I have bozo filtered several posters, i certainly 
> cannot fault him for that. 
> 
> However, being personally attacked in several sexually explicit e-mails gives me some right to 
> smack down the attacker. Being lumped into groups which I may or may not fit, and vilified as 
> un-American, and being the recipient of off-list nastygrams (and not responding publically), 
> certainly taints my responses to ToeKnee and his ilk. ToeKnee may be trying to be more civil--
> he is failing in his attempt. He utilizes the most inflammatory language possible, levels attacks 
> at individuals and groups, and then cries victim of the left when anyone responds negatively. 
> And we still don't know why a Valley Dweller is so interested in Moscow. Has he conquered 
> the 30 or so liberals there and is looking for new territory? Has he been thrown out of the far-
> right camp for being around the bend and needs to feel needed? We know way more than we 
> want to about his very personal life, but this tidbit still eludes us....
> 
> I agree with Saundra that you get back what you put into the forum. Saundra has had an 
> amazing amount of crap thrown at her, and continues to behave well.  I have not always 
> behaved well---not an apology and don't hold your breath.. I fully expect some flack when I am 
> outspoken, or when I make personal reference to another person. I often do not post the 
> response that comes to mind, and sometimes I wish I hadn't hit the send button. But the 
> vicious, vitriolic, twisted stuff that comes from some posters requires a response. Sometimes, 
> that response needs to be worded in the same tone as used by the originator of the topic. 
> JMHO but it's mine and I'm sticking to it.
> 
> I appreciate the holiday spirit sentiment, but this is not a forum that takes a holiday--in fact, 
> this forum doesn't take prisoners! I enjoy the discussions we have on the V, I even enjoy the 
> flame wars here, and my advice is bozo filter those with whom you have a problem  (including 
> me), and stop believing you can moderate the likes of ToeKnee (or me) with platitudes or 
> rebukes.  By the way, a rebuke from Roger for behaving badly doesn't carry a buncha weight 
> with me, given his own poorly excused record. OOOPS. Did it again.....
> 
> Debi R-S
> 
> 
> 
> From:           	"Saundra Lund" <sslund at roadrunner.com>
> To:             	"'lfalen'" <lfalen at turbonet.com>, <debismith at moscow.com>,
>        	<vision2020 at moscow.com>
> Subject:        	RE: [Vision2020] Pat nails it on Iraq
> Date sent:      	Tue, 19 Dec 2006 16:11:33 -0800
> 
> Roger Falen wrote:
> "Tony has been tring yo be more civil ( with some relapses)."
> 
> What fairyland are you living in?!?!?  Truly, Roger -- you've always
> impressed me as in intelligent man.  Surely you've not fallen for
> Tony's latest tactic of cushioning his insults of and attacks on
> individuals and groups between empty, insincere, and sarcastic
> platitudes?!?!
> 
> Besides, didn't your family or your church or your school or your
> friends ever teach you that you get back what you put out in this
> worlds?  Sometimes that accountability happens on Judgment Day, and
> sometimes it additionally happens here & now.  That some people are
> sick & tired of being attacked and maligned by Tony and others is
> perfectly understandable.  Indeed, one might think those responding to
> his nonsense are performing a community service :-)  It is feedback
> from our peers that helps us learn what is socially acceptable and
> what isn't, and as long as people try, there's always the *hope* that
> something might penetrate that thick little skull of Tony's. I'm not
> holding my breath, but . . . 
> 
> Roger also wrote:
> "Tony should be entitled to his opinion . . . "
> 
> Everyone IS entitled to their opinions, Roger, and it's rather
> disingenuous of you to imply otherwise.  However, with the expression
> of opinion comes accountability.  If Tony or others consistently
> choose to express that opinion in the hateful, insulting, and/or
> attacking manner that's become their V2020 signatures, then none of us
> should be surprised when they get back what they put out.  Lord knows
> that Tony & others have proven time & again that facts and reason mean
> nothing to them . . . 
> 
> Roger also wrote:
> ". . . do you think it is ok for those on the left to demean people
> with right wing view. Lets apply the same standards to every one."
> 
> Why, Roger?  You *certainly* didn't apply the same standards to
> everyone.
> 
> I'm incredibly disappointed that when someone who has been
> ***directly*** attacked and harassed responds, you take her to task. 
> Yet you've ignored Tony's repeated sexual harassment of V2020
> participants, you've ignored his racism, and you've remained silent
> about his ugly and vicious attacks on liberals, local and otherwise.
> 
> I'm disappointed, and I fear what you've chosen to remain silent about
> is just as telling as what you've chosen to speak out against in this
> instance.
> 
> 
> JMHO,
> Saundra Lund
> Moscow, ID
> 
> The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good people to
> do nothing. - Edmund Burke
> 
> ***** Original material contained herein is Copyright 2006, Saundra
> Lund. Do not copy, forward, excerpt, or reproduce outside the Vision
> 2020 forum without the express written permission of the author.*****
> 
> 
> 
> 
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