[Vision2020] Fwd: Is there a correlation between "Fore Gras" Killing Babies!

[Joe Campbell]

Doug,

Here are my thoughts on the moral comparison between fois gras and abortion. See also my response to Donovan's post on the topic.

1/ I do not think that "human life begins after birth," as you suggest. Nor does anyone else believe this, really. The term 'human' is a biological concept and refers to a certain type of species. It isn't as if anyone thinks that the fetus becomes a member of the human species after birth but prior to that it is a member of some other species. Nor does anyone think that the fetus is not alive until it is born.

2/ Philosophers often distinguish between persons and humans. A person is, roughly, a being that has a set of basic rights, among which include the right to life. In this way of thinking, it might turn out that a fetus is not a person -- has no rights at all -- yet a geese is a person and does have rights! That is not my view but it is a view, one that would yield a pretty easy response to your comparison between abortion and fois gras. 

3/ The concept of personhood clears things up but it doesn't clarify things enough for me to state my own views on abortion and fois gras. For the record, I don't think that personhood begins at birth (for human beings). Nor do I think that personhood begins at the moment of conception. Likely humans become persons at some time though I don't know when. With respect to any particular fetus at any particular time if someone asks "Is it a person?" my response would be something like "Maybe it is, maybe it isn't." Likewise if someone asks "Are geese persons?" my response is likely to be "Maybe they are, maybe they aren't." I have few clear opinions on particular questions of personhood.

4/ Prior to the last few weeks I knew nothing about the process that led to fois gras. (Actually, I didn't even know what fois gras was!) After learning something about it (thank you Megan and others), I can promise you that I will not be eating the stuff in the future. Is it because I think that geese are persons? That can't be the answer for, as I confessed above, it is hard to say. What isn't hard to say is that geese should not be tortured and the process that leads to fois gras is basically a form of prolonged torture, as far as I can tell. Even if geese don't have a right to life it seems as if you shouldn't torture them. I think that there are things that are far worse than death and prolonged torture is one of them.

5/ I am not a big fan of abortion either and I can promise you that I will not be getting one in the future. Of course, that's easy for me to say! If pressed, I would add that I have a basic belief in the sanctity of human life, so my thoughts here are also independent of my thoughts about personhood: a fetus is a human but might or might not be a person.

I am uncomfortable talking about these issues in public, though, since it has become so politically charged.

Best, Joe

---- heirdoug at netscape.net wrote: 

=============

Joe, 
 
I'm still wondering if you have had any more thoughts about my 
comparison and my challenge to you, Saundra and Megan and any others 
who still think that human life begins after birth. 
 
Time to put your money where your mouth is. It's only $50.00 a month 
and I know that they could use it. 
 
Doug! 

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