[Vision2020] Inconvenient Truth -- What WE REALLY HAVE TO DO

Thu Aug 24 10:08:57 PDT 2006

Paul,

 Thanks for the reply. I do agree that the major problem  with tax increases on the gas is how it impacts poorer families. The  taxes collected should be used primarily to address that problem. A $3  a gallon tax would solve many problems. The idea though is not to have  families paying $7.50 a gallon. The idea is to get them to buy another  car in the next five years that runs on something else besides the  $7.50 a gallon gasoline. To instead, buy a car that uses an alternative  fuel that is in their price range ($4 a gallon in five years, or  today's price). If gasoline is $7.50 or higher, there are numerous  other cheaper alternatives they would move to, instead of sticking with  the most expensive means of transportation. 

 My guess is  that most people are going to buy another car in the next 5 years  anyway. If energy suppliers know that people won't buy gas, and if  buyers now know it would cheaper to invest in a  vehicles that  does not run on gasoline, they will not buy gasoline cars--ending our  fossil fuel dependence for transportation. 

 Consider it like  apples. You have green apples and red apples. Right now, there are only  red apples. If you introduce green apples and charge 45 cents for the  apple, and raise the price of the red apples from 45 cents to $1,  people are going to buy the green apples instead, not the red ones. To  say that hurts the poor, is only accurate if the poor decide to  continue to keep buying the red apples instead of switching to green  ones like everybody. I hope that makes more since to you. The cost  increase would not be the gasoline tax, the cost would be in the  conversion of buying a gas powered car to an alternatively powered  vehicle. 

  Best,

  _DJA

Paul Rumelhart <godshatter at yahoo.com> wrote:                  Donovan,

  I agree with you about the gas-tax idea.  It seems to have helped  in Europe (from what I understand).  It may work the same way  here, too.  We have a different culture than in Europe, though, so  I'm not sure if it will work as well or not but it's worth a  shot.  Unfortunately, though, it's the person living on a limited  income that feels it the most.

 The best way, according to the  numbers, to maintain the human population at a given amount (short of  shooting people for jaywalking) is for more of the human population to  become first-world instead of third-world citizens.  The US  numbers are skewed because of the baby boomers, but I believe I read  somewhere that the birth-rate now is actually negative (more people are  dying than are being born each year).  I know that Japan is having  problems because of their negative birth-rate.  I don't know how  Europe's doing.

  As for thinking BIG, I agree.  Just remember that lots of little  numbers can add up to a big number, too.

  Paul

  Donovan Arnold wrote:  I  don't think eating lettuce and carrot sticks is going to save the  environment, no matter how many you eat and everyone else. The only way  to do it is to raise the price of gasoline and reduce the human  population. If the world raises the price of gasoline to $7.50 a gallon  over the next 5 years it would force everyone economically to switch to  an alternative form of fuel that would be better on the Earth, maybe  even reverse the effects.

 The second, is to maintain the  human population. The Earth cannot sustain 12 billion people for very  long, it just cannot--even if they just eat tofu, cabbage and sprouts.  The current birth rate of the world it will shortly be 12 billion.  There is only three ways to stop overpopulation; mass murder, mass  sterilization and abortion, or economic enforcement. I prefer economic  enforcement. Making it so expensive to raise a child so that only 1.8  children per fertile woman are born, or zero population growth, is the  way to go. Many Western countries are going this route already.   China uses law enforcement and forced abortion to control their  population--I don't want to go that route.

 You guys are  thinking so small, so tiny. It doesn't help save the earth even a day  to do these tiny things. If the Earth's environment is going to be  saved, it has to be on a HUGE scale, all over the world, and people  will have to be forced to do it by economic  necessity.  Trying to do it politically, socially, educating, or choosing one by  one to change and start caring for the world--it ain't gonna happen  that way folks. Think BIG for a BIG Problem. 

  Best,

  _DJA

    Nils Peterson <nils_peterson at wsu.edu> wrote:      I'm not too surprised that there was not an outpouring of personal  actions
  to my previous question -- I'm about immobilized by the challenge as  well.

  Carbon neutral is an interesting concept, but knowing if something is  carbon
  neutral is hard, and, given that most things include a transportation
  element, its going to be hard to be neutral.

  Megan's veggie idea, as subsequently modified by other suggestions is  one
  that resonates for me -- eat lower on the carbon input chain, which  means
  eat local. That's something I can work on.

  SO now, I want to move the discussion out a level, what are WE, as  Moscow,
  gonna do?

  I got a piece of good news last night, PCEI has converted a vehicle to
  bio-diesel and they are talking about how to work with other fleets in  town
  to convert them, and have a local bio-diesel supply. I know a couple  other
  bio-diesel drivers around already and having a supply closer than  Lewiston
  would be welcome news to them.

  The COOP gives a discount for getting there by foot. One of the  businesses
  in Alturas Park (Anatech maybe?) gives employees a financial incentive  per
  mile that they travel to work by foot power. WSU & UI run a bus  between the
  campuses and its free to students and employees (but UI almost cut the
  service this summer -- sad statement on their green commitment)

  What else can we, in whatever collective groups, begin doing?

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 List services made available by First Step Internet, 
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 List services made available by First Step Internet, 
 serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.   
               http://www.fsr.net                       
          mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
=======================================================

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