[Vision2020] Celebrate freedom, kick a flag--burner's ass!

[Joe Campbell]

The key behind Bill's point is the difference between harm and offense. Robbery is a harm, flag burning is at most an offense. Sure you can tell some detailed story about some "harm"  somewhere that is a "result" of the flag burning but there is no more of a connection here than there is between the lame comments of some folks on the V and my inability to sleep at night.

Vague laws against certain forms of political expression, in this case flag burning, may make us feel good but they also open the door for more general and restrictive laws. The only way to prevent this is to have our laws be crisp and clean. Clear harms to clear persons should be the standard.

--
Joe Campbell

---- Tony Simpson <tonytime at clearwire.net> wrote: 

=============
Ah but Bill, how can you be so intolerant of robbery?  Surely you are aware 
that robbery is not a crime, but merely the perpetrator's expression of his 
distaste for capitalism and his support of wealth redistribution.  And of 
course, expression is protected under the constitution, so as repulsive as 
we may find robbery, we are using poor reasoning in calling for its 
abolition.

--T
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Bill London" <london at moscow.com>
To: "Matt Decker" <mattd2107 at hotmail.com>; <donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com>; 
<thansen at moscow.com>; <joekc at adelphia.net>; <tonytime at clearwire.net>
Cc: <vision2020 at moscow.com>
Sent: Wednesday, August 23, 2006 10:55 AM
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Celebrate freedom, kick a flag--burner's ass!


> The crucial difference is that the rainbow flag was first stolen, then
> trashed.  The issue was not free speech, but robbery.
> BL
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Matt Decker" <mattd2107 at hotmail.com>
> To: <donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com>; <thansen at moscow.com>;
> <joekc at adelphia.net>; <tonytime at clearwire.net>
> Cc: <vision2020 at moscow.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, August 22, 2006 8:53 PM
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Celebrate freedom, kick a flag--burner's ass!
>
>
>> Donovan,
>>
>> Wasn't that flag thrown in the trash can and not burned? I remember the
> flag
>> still in tact when I saw it.
>>
>> Matt
>>
>>
>> >From: Donovan Arnold <donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com>
>> >To: Tom Hansen <thansen at moscow.com>, "'Joe Campbell'"
> <joekc at adelphia.net>,
>> >        "'Tony Simpson'" <tonytime at clearwire.net>
>> >CC: vision2020 at moscow.com
>> >Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Celebrate freedom, kick a flag--burner's ass!
>> >Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2006 06:53:56 -0700 (PDT)
>> >
>> >Tom,
>> >
>> >  If someone burns a flag of a country, nation or group of  people,  I
>> >consider it an act of aggression and/or  ill will  towards those people.
> I
>> >responded that way when several of my  senatorial colleagues in ASUI
> burned
>> >the Gay Straight Alliance Flag--as  did many others.
>> >
>> >  If someone protests against a war or  action of the US within the US
> they
>> >can do so without burning a flag,  spitting on US Soldiers, or 
>> >destroying
>> >public or private property.
>> >
>> >   So yes, I think someone that burns a US Flag should be watched more
>> >carefully, and I think they are people that are disrespecting the 
>> >United
>> >States and all the people in it. I consider an attack on a US  Naval 
>> >ROTC
>> >Building an attack on the US--especially one that my Dad was  attending
>> >during the 60s.
>> >
>> >   Best,
>> >
>> >   _DJA
>> >
>> >Tom Hansen <thansen at moscow.com> wrote:              v\:*
>> >{behavior:url(#default#VML);} o\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} w\:*
>> >{behavior:url(#default#VML);} .shape {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
>> >     st1\:*{behavior:url(#default#ieooui) }                    Arnold
>> >stated:
>> >
>> >     "It is easier to find those that  hate and wish real harm to the
>> >United    States if you allow them to burn a flag."
>> >
>> >     Are you suggesting that all those students  and anti-war protestors
>> >during Vietnam  hated and wished real harm to the United States, 
>> >Arnold?
>> >
>> >     Campuses (just to name a few) at:
>> >
>> >     University of Virginia
>> >
>> >     University of California at Berkeley
>> >
>> >     Kent State University
>> >
>> >     UNIVERSITY OF IDAHO
>> >     (Be careful here, Arnold.  My wife attended UI during the late 
>> > 60's.
>> >Yes.  There were  major demonstrations which included (on one occasion
>> >burning a US  flag and an attempt to burn down the Navy ROTC building)
>> >
>> >     Thoughts?
>> >
>> >     Tom Hansen
>> >
>> >             ********************************************
>> >
>> >   "Dissent is the highest form of patriotism"
>> >
>> >   - Thomas Jefferson
>> >
>> >   ********************************************
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >---------------------------------
>> >
>> >     From:  vision2020-bounces at moscow.com
>> >[mailto:vision2020-bounces at moscow.com] On Behalf Of Donovan Arnold
>> >   Sent: Monday, August 21, 2006 2:26  PM
>> >   To: Joe Campbell; Tony Simpson
>> >   Cc: vision2020 at moscow.com
>> >   Subject: Re: [Vision2020]  Celebrate freedom, kick a flag--burner's
> ass!
>> >
>> >
>> >     "I think that the question of whether flag burning is or is not
>> >speech
>> >   is not so  clear." Joe Campbell
>> >
>> >   Isn't it  that every American Flag eventually gets burned?
>> >
>> >   A flag is  speech, that is all it is, how you burn it and for what
>> >reasons I think
>> >   speaks  volumes.
>> >
>> >   It is easier  to find those that hate and wish real harm to the
>> >   United States if you allow them to  burn a flag.
>> >
>> >   Best,
>> >
>> >   _DJA
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >---------------------------------
>> >  All-new Yahoo! Mail - Fire up a more powerful email and get things 
>> > done
>> >faster.
>>
>>
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