[Vision2020] Vision2020 Digest, Vol 2, Issue 290

[Ted Moffett]

Megan et. al.

That was fast...

I didn't for a moment think you were being condescending... However, I am!
Anyone who does not realize the perfection of my unassailable logic and
facts is...probably correct in calling me a pompous ass and questioning.

I have lived occasionally with no animal products in my diet, and yes, if
done correctly, this can be a very healthy diet, and is recommended for
many important reasons, as you indicate.

I have never hunted...well, a few times with no success, just to please
someone else.  I'd rather watch the deer than shoot them or eat them.  But
they are not an endangered species in Idaho, and hunting is part of how the
herd is managed, while providing many in Idaho with inexpensive food which
just happens to have a limited fossil fuel impact, depending.

Biofuels may become a practical long term source of fuel that can truly be
CO2 neutral, though I doubt biofuel can be produced in enough quantities
given the limitations to become the major source of energy to fuel the
current and future system of engines dependent on fossil fuel.

Brazil has an impressive biofuel industry based on sugar cane.  I heard
an interview with an operator of a biofuel plant built right next to massive
sugar cane fields that were being harvested and the plant powered (so they
claimed to the camera and microphone) with the biofuels the plant produced!
However, they have very cheap labor costs, and were fossil fuels used to
transport the biofuel to the gas stations around Brazil?  If they are
powering the harvesting, production and transport system for the biofuels
with biofuel, and still have enough efficiency to have a lot of biofuel left
over for the consumer at the end, well, they're making progress toward a
efficient CO2 neutral biofuel system.

A large segment of the fleet of cars in Brazil already runs on biofuel.

Sugar cane, a far superior biofuel crop than corn (not the best, but a
popular biofuel in the US supported by subsidies!), must be grown in a
tropical climate.  Brazil has lots of land that can be put into sugar cane
production relative to its population and energy consumption, so they are
situated rather well to use biofuels to significantly reduce their
dependence on foreign oil, which they claim they have already achieved.

As far as the government making the moves to go green, if loan guarantees
from the US government are given to Iogen, they plan on a cellulosic biofuel
plant in Idaho that may help to develop practical CO2 neutral biofuel.  This
may help to promote a form of biofuel production far more practical and
efficent than corn/ethanol biofuel.

I'm afraid without the US government getting much more involved in promoting
CO2 neutral technology and widespread implementation, we are in a major
fix.  There is too much profit in the short term to maintaining the heavily
fossil fuel dependent economy we now have to understand how the marketplace
will quickly move to solve the problems without a push from, or actual
massive investment from, the US government.

Change from the bottom up can be useful, but the problems are so massive and
the technology to solve them so difficult, along with the concentration of
power in a huge global multi-national corporate system dominating economic
activity, that change led from the top seems absolutely necessary.

Change could be forced more aggressively from the bottom up, but alas, it
seems most are content to continue with a high energy/fossil fuel
dependent consumptive lifestyle, while shrugging their shoulders at the
crisis of global warming and fossil fuel depletion.

Ted Moffett

On 8/23/06, Megan Prusynski <megan at meganpru.com> wrote:
>
> Thanks for the response. Let me first say that I'm not trying to be
> condescending in any way or saying that my lifestyle is right for
> everyone, just trying to offer a few ideas for living more
> sustainably that I am trying out, and see what others are doing.
>
> If you need to hunt a deer to live, and do so locally, by all means
> that sure beats eating factory farmed food that is shipped in using
> fossil fuels! I have other reasons other than environmental impact
> that affected my choice to go vegetarian, as I mentioned, and one is
> that I believe I don't have the right to kill another sentient being
> to eat if I don't need to. I am healthier than I have ever been on a
> vegetarian diet and it's clear that I don't need meat to live, so I
> choose not to eat it. If you hunt to eat, so be it, you're right it
> is a much better alternative and a better choice for many people,
> just not myself.
>
> Thanks for the bio-fuels information as well. Bio-fuels, like hybrid
> cars, I think are only a transitionary technology, and both still
> depend on a fossil fuel infrastructure that we have set up in
> society. So they're definitely not a be-all & end-all solution to the
> sustainable transportation problem and I hope I wasn't implying that.
> They are definitely a transition thing, and hopefully will be further
> developed (or discarded) as better and cleaner technology comes
> along. But it's a step in the right direction, I think, to run off of
> locally produced, lower emissions fuel for now if I can.
>
> I will do some further research on what you've brought up when I have
> some time, but I have done a lot on my own already, from a variety of
> sources. I just hope that people all over the world start applying
> what they know and living their ideals instead of just talking about
> them. We certainly can't wait for the government to make the move on
> going green... if you want things to change you must first start with
> yourself, that is all I'm saying, and I'm obviously still a work in
> progress, as everyone is!
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2006 11:24:16 -0700
> From: "Ted Moffett" <starbliss at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] An Inconvenient Truth: Local Hunters &
>        Biofuels?
> To: "Megan Prusynski" <megan at meganpru.com>
> Cc: vision2020 at moscow.com
> Message-ID:
>        <d03f69e0608231124w124969btb81d02ebf71e135f at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> Megan et. al.
>
> Your comment on vegetarianism resulting in less fossil fuel use to
> produce
> the food compared to a more meat eating diet is excellent.  Fossil
> fuels are
> so integrated into every aspect of our economy it is easy to forget the
> fossil fuel costs hidden everywhere.
>
> Consider, though, the local hunter who kills a deer a few miles from his
> home, and does their own butchering...They are getting a lot of food
> with a
> minimal fossil fuel impact, an entirely different situation from the
> beef
> grown in Brazil on former rain forest land, cut and burned to make
> way for
> highly profitable cattle, releasing massive amounts of CO2, beef then
> raised, transported and sold to the USA, again using more fossil fuel
> in the
> process.  Talk about an argument for local food to reduce CO2 emissions,
> even if it is a locally "grown" deer!  Depending on how the food was
> fertilized, grown, harvested and transported, in some cases a local wild
> deer might provide more food for less fossil fuel use than vegetarian
> food.
> We should consider that keeping the deer meat frozen for months will
> have a
> fossil fuel impact associated with this energy use... I suppose the meet
> could be dried and salted or something, removing this energy use.
> And if
> everyone in the Quad cities area was getting their meat from local deer,
> could the deer population remain stable or decline?
>
> Also, about your use of biofuels, if you can run your biofuel vehicle on
> what would otherwise be thrown away vegetable oil from restaurants,
> what a
> deal, and, as you pointed out, "carbon neutral."
>
> However, biofuels are only truly carbon neutral when the entire
> process of
> growing, harvesting and processing the biofuel and delivering it to
> vehicles
> does not use fossil fuel.  Some systems of biofuel production show a
> limited
> gain in reduction of fossil fuel use and CO2 emissions when
> considering all
> fossil fuel impacts.  Much of the fertilizer and the energy for the
> machinery for large scale agriculture come from petroleum.  The US
> ethanol
> industry seems like it might radically reduce our need for foreign
> oil, and
> reduce CO2 emissions, but according to this detailed analysis, this is
> questionable:
>
> http://petroleum.berkeley.edu/papers/patzek/PublishedEDS2005.pdf.
>
> If this analysis is even just mostly correct, ethanol from corn is not a
> profound solution to dependence on foreign oil or lowing CO2 emissions.
>
> Almost certainly the vegetable oil from restaurants that you use for
> biofuel
> came from biomatter grown, harvested, processed and transported with
> fossil
> fuels.
>
> Also, to rely on biofuels on a large scale to replace fossil fuels might
> have a very negative impact on food production, taking land for fuel
> away
> from food.
>
> However, the new cellulosic biofuel process allows for less upstream
> fossil
> fuel impacts to produce biofuel, some claim, and can use straw or wood
> chips, not food biomatter.  But the efficiency of a entire biofuel
> production/delivery system using this more sophisticated process, a
> system
> that would need to be mostly powered with biofuels or other CO2 neutral
> energy to really be mostly independent of fossil fuels, still remains in
> question.
>
> Allan Greenspan, former head of the Federal Reserve, was on C-Span
> recently
> lecturing members of the US Congress on our need to stop dependence on
> foreign oil, and mentioned the cellulosic biofuel potential in Idaho
> as a
> solution.
>
> Supposedly Iogen from Canada was going to open a large scale cellulosic
> biofuel production plant in Southern Idaho, utilizing Idaho's huge
> agricultural production of straw, if I recall correctly:
>
> http://www.free-press.biz/2-2006/Cellulosic-Ethanol.html
>
> Does anyone know if this plant is being built or is still planned?.
>
> I just answered my own question, assuming this news is accurate at
> the link
> below.  Construction may start the Fall of 2007.   Idaho may become a
> major
> player in biofuels if this plant is built and is economically
> successful,
> but note Iogen wants US loan guarantees to cover investors losses if the
> project fails.  This does not inspire confidence:
>
> http://domesticfuel.com/?p=614
>
> -----
>
> Ted Moffett
>
> On 8/23/06, Megan Prusynski <megan at meganpru.com> wrote:
>
> >
> >  I haven't seen the movie yet (gasp!) since I've been traveling a lot
> > lately, but I do plan to see it. I find it rather funny that Al Gore's
> > lifestyle, like most politicians, is pretty much the opposite of
> > how we need
> > to be living if we hope to combat global warming... but at least he's
> > willing to admit global warming is a serious threat, and that it
> > exists.
> >
> > I think it is up to each individual to change their lifestyle and make
> > some sacrifices for the environment's sake, obviously waiting for our
> > government to take action on global warming isn't working so well.
> > Americans
> > don't usually like to be told that they need to make sacrifices,
> > though, but
> > there are a lot of little things we can do to create positive
> > change that
> > are relatively easy. I've been trying consciously to decrease my
> > footprint
> > the last few years, so I have some ideas on where to start, but
> > obviously
> > these things need to happen on a grand scale...
> >
> > So here's what I've done recently in a small effort to make my
> > lifestyle
> > line up with my ideals and try to curb global warming...
> >
> > 1. Went vegetarian. Best decision I have ever made. I won't discuss
> > all of
> > the numerous reasons I made this decision (animal welfare, aversion to
> > factory farming, health, world hunger, beliefs, etc...) but a major
> > reason
> > was the environment. Nearly half the water and 80% of the
> > agricultural land
> > in this country are used to raise animals for food. More than one-
> > third of
> > all the fossil fuels produced in the US are used to raise animals
> > for food.
> > Eating lower on the food chain is simply less wasteful: it takes
> > about 20
> > times more energy to produce meat than it does to produce plants
> > for food.
> > If more of us ate a plant-based diet instead of a meat-based one,
> > we would
> > lower our energy needs, contribute a hell of a lot less pollution,
> > and save
> > precious water and land resources as well. (Check out
> > http://www.goveg.com/environment.asp for more info).
> >
> > 2. Converted my car to run on bio-fuels and invested in a bike
> > trailer.
> > For in-town errands, my boyfriend and I use a bike with a trailer
> > that fits
> > all our groceries. For road trips, we use our newly converted VW
> > bus that
> > runs on waste veggie oil & bio-diesel. Bio-fuels are carbon-neutral
> > (the
> > plants used to grow them compensate for the carbon emitted when
> > they are
> > burned), have lower emissions, and can be grown domestically,
> > reducing our
> > need for foreign oil (and therefore war!). Any diesel vehicle can be
> > converted to run on waste vegetable oil by installing a kit with an
> > extra
> > veggie oil tank. If you're interested, I'm sure my boyfriend (an
> > engineering
> > alumni from UI) wouldn't mind making a living off of converting
> > vehicles.
> > Running on grease is better for longer trips, since you have to
> > warm up on
> > diesel or bio-diesel, and yes, the exhaust does smell like french
> > fries.
> > Speaking of veggie oil, does anyone know of any restaurants (other
> > than the
> > Breakfast Club, who graciously supplies us with oil each week) that
> > want a
> > better way to recycle their waste vegetable oil from fryers? Bio-
> > fuels are
> > only one of many many alternative energy & fuel sources that I hope
> > become
> > more popular.
> >
> > 3. I'm in the process (always) of learning to live more simply, eat
> > more
> > locally-grown food, and simply thinking about the environmental
> > consequences
> > of every action. By being more conscious and spreading that
> > consciousness,
> > we can make green living the norm. Society needs to work towards
> > sustainability, one person at a time.
> >
> > Just thought I'd share my ideas on the subject of living more
> > sustainably
> > and curbing global warming through a change in lifestyle. What is
> > everyone
> > else doing to help this problem? :)
> >
> > peace!
> >
> > ~megan
>
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