[Vision2020] West of Paris, Grand Opening

Andreas Schou ophite at gmail.com
Wed Aug 23 11:05:32 PDT 2006 

On 8/22/06, Matt Decker <mattd2107 at hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> Joe,
>
> Im back and had a great four day trip on the Salmon. If you haven't done it
> I would highly recomend it. Salmon steaks and margaritas for dinner, yummy.
>
> Anywho, I can't get over this topic. I've seen some pretty silly arguments
> for and against it. A few things that pop into mind are:
>
> 1. Why is the cross protected by the constitution from being burned, but not
> the flag?

The cross is not protected by the Constitution from being burned.
People are protected, by statute, from having a cross burned on their
property with the intent to intimidate them. You can legally burn a
cross at a Klan rally, but once you burn it on a black family's lawn,
you are crossing the line from protected speech into speech designed
to intimidate. Burning a cross is illegal under the same basic
principle that telling someone that you intend to shoot them is
illegal, though it implicitly, rather than explicitly, threatens
violence.

> 2. If the burning ceremony will cause harm to people, through the
> demonstration itself, or retaliation, shouldn't the law enforcement stop
> that.

Law enforcement has the responsibility to stop the retaliation. Just
as police officers have been deployed to protect the Phelps family
protesting at military funerals and to guard Klan rallies, the police
has an equal responsibility to make sure that people take no illegal
actions in order to stop a lawful action.

-- ACS

> Have a couple more but I'll start with that.
>
> Matt
>
> >From: Joe Campbell <joekc at adelphia.net>
> >To: Matt Decker <mattd2107 at hotmail.com>
> >CC: vision2020 at moscow.com
> >Subject: Re: [Vision2020] West of Paris, Grand Opening
> >Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2006 9:53:12 -0700
> >
> >Matt,
> >
> >I'm not making any general claims about whether passing laws against X will
> >lead to an increase or decrease of folks doing X. I am making a particular
> >claim about a particular law and action. Moreover, tt seems that the burden
> >of whether a law will or will not deter an action is on the person wishing
> >to pass the law. What reason do you have for thinking that it will decrease
> >and not increase the incidence of flag burning?
> >
> >All of this is besides the point, though, for the law clearly compromises
> >our constitutional principles of freedom of expression, as Paul suggested.
> >Don't you think that those principles are more important than the harm done
> >by flag burning? I understand your anger at flag burners but aside from
> >this what is the real harm done to our country or its individuals?
> >
> >I can wait until you get back from rafting for a response. Have a nice
> >trip!
> >
> >--
> >Joe Campbell
> >
> >---- Matt Decker <mattd2107 at hotmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >=============
> >Joe,
> >
> >With that theory, if marijauna was to be legalized would the use of it go
> >down then? If and only if the flag burning did increase I would tend to
> >think that it would only be for a small amount of time. Over time lets say
> >a
> >year, I would think that it would decrease.
> >
> >As a nation we need to draw the line what people should and shouldn't do.
> >Burning the flag is way over that line.
> >
> >going rafting so I will continue when I get back
> >Matt
> >
> >
> > >From: Joe Campbell <joekc at adelphia.net>
> > >To: Matt Decker <mattd2107 at hotmail.com>
> > >CC: vision2020 at moscow.com
> > >Subject: Re: [Vision2020] West of Paris, Grand Opening
> > >Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2006 7:42:49 -0700
> > >
> > >Matt,
> > >
> > >I agree that burning the flag is wrong, plain and simple. But as Andreas
> > >points out, a law against such actions would be counter to both the
> > >Constitution and the very principles of freedom on which this country is
> > >built. That seems like a much greater wrong.
> > >
> > >Furthermore, my guess is that, were a law against flag burning passed, it
> > >would only increase the number of flag's burned. Does anyone know the
> > >number of flags that have been burned in, say, the last year? I bet it is
> > >relatively small. But think of how many people would burn flags in
> >protest
> > >of an anti-flag-burning law.
> > >
> > >If you could explain to me what purpose we'd achieve by passing such a
> >law,
> > >I'd be grateful. On the face of it, it seems like a really bad idea.
> > >
> > >--
> > >Joe Campbell
> > >
> > >---- Matt Decker <mattd2107 at hotmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > >=============
> > >Or it could be that burning the flag is wrong, plain and simple. Maybe
> >they
> > >are wasting one but Ill take that one day for doing the right thing and
> > >fixing what should have done the first time.
> > >
> > >
> > > >From: "Andreas Schou" <ophite at gmail.com>
> > > >To: "Matt Decker" <mattd2107 at hotmail.com>
> > > >CC: vision2020 at moscow.com
> > > >Subject: Re: [Vision2020] West of Paris, Grand Opening
> > > >Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2006 22:49:11 -0700
> > > >
> > > >On 8/17/06, Matt Decker <mattd2107 at hotmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > Mr. London,
> > > > >
> > > > > And just as they should. Why shouldn't the congress take one day out
> > >of
> > > > > their schedule in order to make flag burning an offense?
> > > >
> > > >Because doing so is taking a day out of their schedule to violate or,
> > > >alternatively, create exceptions to the Constitution which they have
> > > >all sworn to uphold? I don't know. Could be that.
> > > >
> > > >-- ACS
> > > >
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