[Vision2020] Line and 6th
Art Deco
deco at moscow.com
Tue Aug 22 10:22:26 PDT 2006
Bruce,
If there is someone working for the city that is interested enough in this issue, perhaps they will tell us.
Here's one city's policy/information brochure:
Installation of Traffic Signals
When Are Traffic Signals Installed?
Traffic signals have been used for many decades to control traffic flow. This has provided engineers opportunities to study their positive and negative impacts, to identify when signals should be installed and to determine how they should be operated. National and state standards have been developed in order to provide uniformity and maximum benefit to the public.
When used under the right conditions, traffic signals may improve traffic flow and safety. In considering when and where traffic signals should be installed, engineers gather information on traffic flows. This may include the amount of vehicle traffic for each fifteen minute period of the day, the direction of traffic, turning vehicles and pedestrians and bicyclists (especially near schools). Traffic speeds and the development in the area are also considered along with the number of travel lanes available at the location.
Traffic flow information assists in determining the potential impacts of a traffic signal on travel delays and how many vehicles can be served by the intersection (capacity). All signals have the potential to increase delays or decrease capacity to some traffic movement and decrease delays or increase capacity to other traffic movements. Both total delay and capacity impacts and individual movements are considered.
The history of incidents (collisions) at the location are also reviewed. This is of particular importance since some types of incidents (such as right angle or broadside) may be reduced in frequency with installation of a traffic signal. However, other types of incidents (such as rear end collisions) may increase with installation of a signal. When one street serves a much greater number of vehicles than the crossing street, the potential for an increase in the frequency of traffic incidents is higher.
Other considerations include growth trends, potential traffic diversions, where other future controls in the area may be likely and whether other changes may be more appropriate. The impact on overall traffic flow upstream and downstream of the signal is also of concern.
Signal Costs
When properly applied, traffic signals represent a sound public investment in the transportation system. A new traffic signal installation may cost $150,000 to $200,000. Such expenditures should be made only when justified and with consideration of other needed projects.
When not properly justified, the cost of a traffic signal is much greater than the installation cost. Other costs to the public may include time lost to unnecessary delays, increased frequency of incidents, increased fuel consumption and pollution and increased inconveniences and frustration. These wasteful public costs may easily exceed the installation cost of the signal in a single year.
New Signal Caution
Whenever a new traffic control is installed, the public may need several months to adjust to the new control. Many drivers need time to break old driving habits. Although drivers should always drive with caution, they should be especially careful the first few months after installation of a new signal.
Traffic Signal Misconceptions
People may request traffic signals based on misconceptions of traffic signal impacts. For example, persons may hear of one incident, especially if a fatality occurs, and conclude that a traffic signal should be installed. As previously stated, traffic signals do not necessarily reduce the frequency of incidents. In any case, making significant conclusions from a single or few incidents, especially without knowledge of the actual incident causes, will typically result in incorrect actions.
People may also request a traffic signal because it is difficult to cross or enter a busy street. If this alone were the reason for installing a traffic signal, busy arterials would have signals at almost all intersections and driveways, making travel extremely difficult. Sufficient traffic on cross streets is necessary to justify stopping major street traffic. The majority of miles traveled is on arterial streets. If cross streets were signalized at low traffic volumes, the few moments saved entering or crossing the major street would be lost many times over in travel along the arterial. In short, drivers are in the major street flow far more often than they are in the cross street flow. Even when the cross street volumes are sufficient to justify stopping the major street flow, the total delay to traffic may be increased.
Closely spaced traffic signals are of concern since they typically become more difficult to operate together and minimize stops and delays along major streets. Close spacing may result in gridlock when the line of vehicles from a signal backs up into other intersections. Diversion of traffic may also be a concern, especially if traffic is encouraged to use residential streets either to reach or avoid a signal. http://www.cityofpalmdale.org/departments/traffic/pamp_6.html
W.
----- Original Message -----
From: Bruce and Jean Livingston
To: Art Deco
Sent: Tuesday, August 22, 2006 8:54 AM
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Line and 6th
No, but I would like to know, since I suggested a light that operates during high traffic and child pedestrian times. At other times of day, I think that Mountainview Road ought to retain its current non-stop right of way, via a blinking yellow light instead of a permanent four way stop. How much would that solution cost?
Bruce Livingston
----- Original Message -----
From: Art Deco
To: Vision 2020
Sent: Tuesday, August 22, 2006 7:53 AM
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Line and 6th
Do you have any idea how much properly designed, smart traffic signals cost?
W.
----- Original Message -----
From: Donovan Arnold
To: Tom Ivie ; Art Deco ; Vision 2020
Sent: Tuesday, August 22, 2006 6:24 AM
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Line and 6th
That would be good .But I don't understand why MSD doesn't buy one now.
Best,
_DJA
Tom Ivie <the_ivies3 at yahoo.com> wrote:
Donovan,
How about a compromise? Put up 4-way stop signs until a grant can go through for a stop light. This way there will be something there in the interim.
Donovan Arnold <donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com> wrote:
What are you people on crack? Line and 6th (a three way, not four way stop) is backed up for blocks several times a day. Cars are half way to Deakin every time I go through there. And college students don't all get out off classes at exactly the same time like they do on Mt. View and D. I don't use that road. But I think people will be very upset if a four way stop is placed on that intersection instead of a stop light. Letting 20 cars go at a time is much faster then one at a time, and safer.
Best,
_DJA
Art Deco <deco at moscow.com> wrote:
How do we know that a four-way stop at Mountain View and D will clog traffic for blocks? Do you have access to traffic studies and the engineered conclusions drawn from them the rest of us are ignorant of?
There are several busy intersections with four-way stops that function fine without clogging traffic for blocks: Blaine and 6th, Blaine and White, Hayes and D, Line and 6th (although this can back up traffic for about one block on the east side at peak times, but no big deal), A and Line, are a few examples.
W.
----- Original Message -----
From: Donovan Arnold
To: roger hayes ; vision2020 at moscow.com
Sent: Sunday, August 20, 2006 8:22 AM
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Mountain View and D
I am not for a stop sign on Mountain and D. I am however, for a stop light. A four way stop will have Mountain View and D street clogged for blocks. That will force more people into taking alternative routes speeding through neighborhood streets and down 6th Street (when and if that road ever reopens).
It sounds logical to put a four way stop there. But I think the volume of traffic is great and this will create greater problems on that corner and elsewhere in town. How much longer does it take for four cars to come to a stop, then go one at a time? Multiply that by the number of cars, if will a good 10-15 minutes longer to across town on that section of road.
Best,
_DJA
roger hayes <rhayes at turbonet.com> wrote:
> A timed light is an improvement, but kids and walkers cross that
> intersection from dawn to way past dark. The problem does not just
> occur during the morning and afternoon. A stop sign would be a cheap,
> effective way to slow the traffic enough so drivers would be more
> aware of children and pedestrians in the crosswalk. We'd probably want
> to leave the blinking yellow light though.
Roger Hayes
>
>> I think the city has viewed Mt. View as an arterial for the increasing
>> numbers of houses on the outskirts of Moscow.
>> As a person who frequently crosses this intersection on foot and by
>> bicycle, I think a 4 way stop sign at D and Mt. View is a good idea
>> indeed. People tend to really zip through that area. It will, however,
>> change the nature of Mt. View from commuting arterial to urban street.
>> But given all the schools, the pool, and rec. centers in the area, the
>> change will not be a bad thing.
>
> Roger Hayes
>
>> From: cynthia nichols
>> To: Bruce and Jean Livingston
>> CC: john weber , Nancy Chaney
>> ,
>> bill lambert , Vision 2020
>> , Robert Stout ,
>> john dickinson
>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Public Works Meeting
>> Date: Sat, 19 Aug 2006 07:27:40 -0700
>>
>> This is a good idea. No sense in making EVERYONE on Mountain View
>> stop all day long when there is only a problem twice a day. Or even
>> having the lights on Mtn. View blink yellow most of the day and blink
>> red during those peak-use times.
>>
>> The city needs to require the developer to finish the sidewalk on the
>> east side of Mountain View too-between Hillcrest and Rolling Hills.
>>
>> cynthia nichols
>>
>>
>> On Aug 16, 2006, at 11:21 AM, Bruce and Jean Livingston wrote:
>>
>>> Frankly, I don't understand why they don't put a traffic light
>>> there, set it
>>> for blinking yellow much of the day in the Mountainview direction,
>>> but run
>>> it with actual red and green alternating lights for the high
>>> traffic, "kid"
>>> times, say 7 a.m. to 9 a.m., and 2 p.m. until 4 or even 6 pm given
>>> the "kid
>>> use" of the athletic facilities all around that intersection. The
>>> traffic
>>> back-up on D St. can be significant, and a regimented crossing
>>> opportunity
>>> that an actual red light on Mountainview would provide is
>>> significant.
>>>
>>> Parents would also be much more likely to allow children to walk to
>>> school
>>> if they had confidence in the safety of their child when crossing
>>> Mountainview at D Street.
>>>
>>> Bruce Livingston
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Craine Kit"
>>> To: "Vision 2020"
>>> Sent: Wednesday, August 16, 2006 10:21 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Public Works Meeting
>>>
>>>
>>>> Here are the photos showing the flashing lights.
>>>>
>>>> Kit Craine
=======================================================
List services made available by First Step Internet,
serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
http://www.fsr.net
mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
=======================================================
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
Next-gen email? Have it all with the all-new Yahoo! Mail Beta.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
=======================================================
List services made available by First Step Internet,
serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
http://www.fsr.net
mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
==============================================================================================================
List services made available by First Step Internet,
serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
http://www.fsr.net
mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
=======================================================
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com =======================================================
List services made available by First Step Internet,
serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
http://www.fsr.net
mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
=======================================================
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Want to be your own boss? Learn how on Yahoo! Small Business.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Want to be your own boss? Learn how on Yahoo! Small Business.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=======================================================
List services made available by First Step Internet,
serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
http://www.fsr.net
mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
=======================================================
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://mailman.fsr.com/pipermail/vision2020/attachments/20060822/c8641362/attachment-0001.htm
More information about the Vision2020
mailing list