[Vision2020] Celebrate freedom, kick a flag--burner's ass!
Paul Rumelhart
godshatter at yahoo.com
Sun Aug 20 21:19:18 PDT 2006
I'm sure you've heard all these reasons before, but I'll outline a few
just in case you've missed them.
- Burning the American flag falls under Freedom of Speech. Yes, it's
not "speech" per se, but the courts have extended the concept of
"speech" to cover most forms of expression, not just the spoken word.
- Freedom of Speech is not a piecemeal concept. It has to be all or
nothing. The minute you start limiting it, it's usefulness in all areas
goes right out the door. Look at "hate speech". This concept is
becoming broader by the second in our PC society.
- Burning a flag is an expression of dissent. Of all types of speech,
the expressions of dissent are in most need of protection. Without it,
you have a tyrrany.
- Freedom is difficult. If you give someone the freedom to say whatever
they like, they may say something that annoys or disgusts or offends
you. That is the price of freedom. For example, I wish that people
would stop burning the American flag; it just leads to emotion-driven
reactions instead of rational, thoughtful reactions. However, they have
the right to express their dissent in whatever way they choose whether I
like it or not. Freedom is worth it, though.
- Even if you can in no way think that this administration has done
anything that people should be making such politically-charged
statements like burning the flag, what about the next one? Or the
next? What if your worst nightmare came into office? I don't know for
you if that's Hillary Clinton, Butch Otter, the Antichrist, or Marilyn
Manson - but whoever it is, what if you did not have the freedom to
express your dissent? What if they changed all the rules and made this
country into whatever it is you fear they will make it into?
- Being a patriot does not mean cowtowing to whoever is in charge. What
if our founding fathers thought that way? The Constitution is a
document of checks and balances. Freedom of Speech and the Right to
Bear Arms are two powerful tools we have been given to use as checks
against a government that might get out of control.
- Assaulting someone (or is it battery? I get them confused) is orders
of magnitude worse than an expression of dissent. There you are
treading on the rights of another individual. The fact that you don't
see an overwhelming difference between the two of them frightens me.
Anyway, I'm sure there are others. I'm also sure you actually agree
with some of them to some extent or you wouldn't be proud to live here.
Paul
-
Tony Simpson wrote:
>Leave it to a subversive Hippie like Bill London to praise those who would
>burn the American flag. Pathetic and loathsome. Flower child London says,
>"If I chose to desecrate a flag by burning it in an open place.... so what?
>That is free speech."
>
>What pure, unadulterated horseshit! There is no speech involved in such a
>juvenile, thoughtless, ungrateful and snotnosed activity. It is
>unpatriotic, typically liberal acting out. If that is free speech, Billy
>Boy, then it would be free speech for me to walk up to said burner and bury
>my boot a foot up his terrorist--enabling ass!
>
>Sick to death of America's domestic enemies, --TONY
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Bill London" <london at moscow.com>
>To: "Matt Decker" <mattd2107 at hotmail.com>; <kerrybecker6924 at hotmail.com>;
><sslund at adelphia.net>; <vision2020 at moscow.com>
>Sent: Friday, August 18, 2006 10:13 AM
>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] West of Paris, Grand Opening
>
>
>
>
>>Since you asked.....
>>a few of my reasons why I think a Constitutional amendment against
>>desecrating the flag is stupid....
>>1. what is the problem? how many descrated flags are there?
>>2. if I own the flag and choose to desecrate it by burning it in an open
>>place that will not cause a general fire, so what? That is free speech.
>>The flag is a symbol, and burning it is Constitutionally-protected.
>>3. what is desecration? wearing a flag on the butt of your jeans?
>>wrapping
>>your used car in flags to sell it at a used car lot? getting a tattoo of
>>flag upside down? Boy Scouts burning old flags?
>>BL
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>----- Original Message -----
>>From: "Matt Decker" <mattd2107 at hotmail.com>
>>To: <london at moscow.com>; <kerrybecker6924 at hotmail.com>;
>><sslund at adelphia.net>; <vision2020 at moscow.com>
>>Sent: Thursday, August 17, 2006 9:21 PM
>>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] West of Paris, Grand Opening
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>Mr. London,
>>>
>>>And just as they should. Why shouldn't the congress take one day out of
>>>their schedule in order to make flag burning an offense? If they focus on
>>>baseball why not on the flag?
>>>
>>>Matt
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>From: "Bill London" <london at moscow.com>
>>>>To: "kerry becker" <kerrybecker6924 at hotmail.com>, <sslund at adelphia.net>,
>>>> <vision2020 at moscow.com>
>>>>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] West of Paris, Grand Opening
>>>>Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2006 12:33:43 -0700
>>>>
>>>>Yes, it is true that Chicago has (for the reasons Ms. Lund has
>>>>
>>>>
>>enumerated)
>>
>>
>>>>banned foie gras, because of the disgusting and inhumane way the birds
>>>>
>>>>
>>are
>>
>>
>>>>force-fed to create these inflated livers. Chicago has not banned duck
>>>>liver, only foie gras.
>>>>And as for the reason, it's all a question of values, as the Republicans
>>>>say every year when they try to amend the US Constitution to end the
>>>>non-existant problem of people burning US flags.
>>>>BL
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: kerry becker
>>>> To: sslund at adelphia.net ; vision2020 at moscow.com
>>>> Sent: Wednesday, August 16, 2006 4:56 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] West of Paris, Grand Opening
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> This is absurd. The city of Chicago has taken the time to ban duck
>>>>liver?? - Meanwhile the inner city runs rampant with crime, poverty and
>>>>drugs. Odd really.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>---------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>>
>>-
>>
>>
>>>> From: "Saundra Lund" <sslund at adelphia.net>
>>>> To: <vision2020 at moscow.com>
>>>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] West of Paris, Grand Opening
>>>> Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2006 15:38:46 -0700
>>>> >Visionaries:
>>>> >
>>>> >I have debated and debated about whether to post this or not, but
>>>>
>>>>
>>I'd
>>
>>
>>>>hate
>>>> >for an unsuspecting person to go to West of Paris only to be
>>>>horrified.
>>>> >
>>>> >I was deeply disappointed to see that West of Paris will be
>>>>selling
>>>>foie
>>>> >gras:
>>>> >http://www.westofparis.com/dinner_menu.html
>>>> >For that reason alone, I will refuse to patronize the business, no
>>>>matter
>>>> >how delicious other menu items look or sound -- it's a matter of
>>>>ethics for
>>>> >me.
>>>> >
>>>> >The process used to make foie gras is animal cruelty, pure and
>>>>
>>>>
>>simple
>>
>>
>>>> :-(((
>>>> >Fifteen nations (including the UK, the Czech Republic, Denmark,
>>>>Finland,
>>>> >Germany, Luxembourg, Norway, Poland, Sweden, Switzerland, and
>>>>
>>>>
>>Israel
>>
>>
>>>>--
>>>> >formerly the fourth largest producer in the world) have banned
>>>>force-feeding
>>>> >birds for foie gras production. The City of Chicago has banned
>>>>the
>>>>sale of
>>>> >foie gras, and Philadelphia is likely to follow. Beginning 2012,
>>>>
>>>>
>>the
>>
>>
>>>> >production and sale of foie gras from force-fed birds will be
>>>>
>>>>
>>banned
>>
>>
>>>>in the
>>>> >State of California.
>>>> >
>>>> >I won't go into the horrifying and graphic details of how foie
>>>>gras
>>>>is
>>>> >produced, but for those who want to learn more, you can check out:
>>>> >http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foie_gras
>>>> >You can also Google it, but WARNING: there's a lot of deeply
>>>>disturbing
>>>> >(although accurate) information and photos you'll find.
>>>> >
>>>> >Very disappointing that foie gras will be sold in *any* Moscow
>>>>restaurant
>>>> >:-(((
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >JMNSHO,
>>>> >Saundra Lund
>>>> >Moscow, ID
>>>> >
>>>> >The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good
>>>>people
>>>>to do
>>>> >nothing.
>>>> >- Edmund Burke
>>>> >
>>>> >***** Original material contained herein is Copyright 2006,
>>>>Saundra
>>>>Lund.
>>>> >Do not copy, forward, excerpt, or reproduce outside the Vision
>>>>2020
>>>>forum
>>>> >without the express written permission of the author.*****
>>>> >
>>>> >-----Original Message-----
>>>> >From: vision2020-bounces at moscow.com
>>>>[mailto:vision2020-bounces at moscow.com]
>>>> >On Behalf Of Daniel Foucachon
>>>> >Sent: Monday, August 14, 2006 7:59 PM
>>>> >To: vision2020 at moscow.com
>>>> >Subject: [Vision2020] West of Paris, Grand Opening
>>>> >
>>>> > West of Paris<http://www.westofparis.com/images/west_paris.gif>
>>>> >Grand Opening
>>>> >Friday, August 18th, 2006
>>>> >
>>>> >Now accepting reservations
>>>> >
>>>> >Call (208) 882-4279
>>>> >
>>>> >www.westofparis.com <http://www.westofparis.com/> | opening at
>>>>
>>>>
>>6:00
>>
>>
>>>>p.m.
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >=======================================================
>>>> > List services made available by First Step Internet,
>>>> > serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
>>>> > http://www.fsr.net
>>>> > mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
>>>> >=======================================================
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>---------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>>
>>---
>>
>>
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>>>---------------------------------------------------------------------------
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>>>
>>---
>>
>>
>>>> =======================================================
>>>> List services made available by First Step Internet,
>>>> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
>>>> http://www.fsr.net
>>>> mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
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>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>=======================================================
>>>> List services made available by First Step Internet,
>>>> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
>>>> http://www.fsr.net
>>>> mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
>>>>=======================================================
>>>>
>>>>
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>>>
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>> http://www.fsr.net
>> mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
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>
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> List services made available by First Step Internet,
> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
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