[Vision2020] String Theory
Paul Rumelhart
godshatter at yahoo.com
Mon Aug 14 22:34:45 PDT 2006
I must admit I've never had the opportunity to study this. I've heard
it has something to do with eleven dimensions, but I could be thinking
of something else.
I have enough trouble with Special and General Relativity, let alone
String Theory or even Quantum Mechanics.
I guess I need to find a book on it. It's on my list of topics to learn
about, right behind dark matter and dark energy.
I'm currently rereading Sagan's Cosmos for nostalgia. I have Bohm's The
Undiveded Universe; I plan to try to work my way through that next.
Paul
P.S. Does anyone know what the current thinking is about whether the
universe is Open or Closed? Or have a good reference on dark matter or
dark energy that isn't too technical? My math classes were a couple of
decades ago.
Ted Moffett wrote:
> All-
>
> To have this discussion with no reference to Super String Theory (did
> I miss it?) is like discussing
> genetic advances in medicine ignoring stem cells:
>
> http://www.mkaku.org/
>
> ----
> Ted Moffett
>
>
>
> On 8/14/06, *Tony Simpson* <tonytime at clearwire.net
> <mailto:tonytime at clearwire.net>> wrote:
>
> Paul,
> Time did not exist before the Big Bang? Why not? Is not time
> simply a human construct? A method by which we reference one
> incident in relation to another?
> The Big Bang the start of "space time"? What is Space time? My
> understanding of the theory is that all existing matter in the
> universe existed in a very dense state at one particular point in,
> mind you, an endless void stretching in all directions. Then,
> BANG it explodes outward and to this day, continues to expand.
> Presumably at some point the expansion will slow, stop and then
> reverse eventuating in another dense collection which would then
> re explode over and over.....
>
> Well.
>
> Problem is, if the universe is without end at all, how could
> something without ANY perimeter, expand or contract at all? One
> could theorize that the universe is endless in all directions, but
> that the matter we view in its varied forms only exists in our
> relatively immediate vicinity. Then there would be a perimeter
> providing a point of reference for an expansion or contraction.
> But what of the void which extends, presumably in all directions
> without end? Why would there be a small collection of matter at
> this particular vicinity and not scattered about infinitely as
> well? Is there some other form of matter or void that we haven't
> the capacity to conceive of? And in an infinite expanse filled
> with an infinite array of matter, must there not also be an
> infinite variety of life forms scattered about it? How could
> there not? We are talking of an infinite universe WITHOUT a
> perimeter. Without any fixed point from which to reference from.
>
> I don't anticipate learning the answers to these questions in this
> lifetime, but it would be fascinating, would it not? For
> there ARE answers. There must be. Would our minds be capable,
> from their limited frame of reference, of grasping those answers?
>
> This post risks becoming as endless as the universe itself, so
> g'nite all.
>
> Happy contemplating, --Tony
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* Paul Rumelhart <mailto:godshatter at yahoo.com>
> *To:* vision2020 at moscow.com <mailto:vision2020 at moscow.com>
> *Sent:* Friday, August 11, 2006 6:40 PM
> *Subject:* Re: [Vision2020] You might be a real American
>
>
> The Big Bang, from what I understand, was the start of
> spacetime, not just space. Time did not exist before the Big
> Bang, so it makes no sense to ask what happened before it.
> The commonly used analogous question is: "what is north of the
> North Pole?"
>
> And, yes, I don't think we'll ever really know the answer to
> such questions. All we can do is study the world around us,
> hypothesize, make predictions, and see if our guesses hold up
> to scrutiny and observable evidence.
>
> Paul
>
> Tony Simpson wrote:
>
>> Just curious Paul, What happened 20 minutes before the big
>> bang? There can not have been a beginning, could there?
>> Something, in some form must have preceded it... certainly
>> at least empty space existed.
>>
>> Isn't it a little silly of us to think we can ever answer
>> such questions?
>> --T----- Original Message -----
>>
>> *From:* Paul Rumelhart <mailto:godshatter at yahoo.com>
>> *To:* vision2020 at moscow.com <mailto:vision2020 at moscow.com>
>> *Sent:* Thursday, August 10, 2006 9:02 PM
>> *Subject:* Re: [Vision2020] You might be a real American
>>
>>
>> Unfortunately, the evidence seems to point towards the
>> Big Bang. The ratio of hydrogen to helium in the
>> observable universe can be calculated based on the
>> conditions that the universe would have had within the
>> first five minutes of the Big Bang with a fairly good
>> degree of accuracy. The light that was being scattered
>> all around by un-attached electrons and protons was
>> predicted to have suddenly been able to shine out in a
>> massive wave once the universe cooled to the right amount
>> (about 300,000 years after the Big B) and the scattered
>> electrons, protons, and neutrons combined together and
>> stopped bouncing the light every which way. It was
>> predicted that we would be able to observe this wave of
>> light, highly red-shifted, once our technology got
>> better. It was observed and was named the Cosmic
>> Microwave Background radiation (CMB). Observed galaxies
>> were more red-shifted the farther away they were, which
>> matched the theory. Young baby galaxies are found mostly
>> on the fringes of the universe, which you would expect
>> based on the theory. Small variations in the CMB were
>> predicted because our galaxies could not have clumped
>> together otherwise. These variations were eventually
>> found. The theory is consistent with General
>> Relativity. There is no evidence for anything being
>> older than 20 billion years, so if the universe had no
>> beginning, why don't we see things older than that?
>> There are others, I'm sure. I'm not a cosmologist, just
>> interested in the subject matter.
>>
>> Anyway, I'll leave Science to study the What, When, Where
>> and How of the universe. Theology can have Who and Why.
>>
>> Paul
>>
>> g. crabtree wrote:
>>
>>>All of creation the result of a sudden "big bang," the result of nobody
>>>knows what or everything the result of an omnipotent Creator. Both seem
>>>improbable but if I have to pick one, I like the idea of a benevolent, if
>>>somewhat inscrutable God. I know for an absolute fact from youthful
>>>experimentation that large explosions don't love me. (I'm mighty fond of
>>>them, however. Talk about your unrequited affection.)
>>>
>>>gc
>>>----- Original Message -----
>>>From: "Matt Decker" <mattd2107 at hotmail.com> <mailto:mattd2107 at hotmail.com>
>>>To: <deco at moscow.com> <mailto:deco at moscow.com>;
>>><vision2020 at moscow.com> <mailto:vision2020 at moscow.com>
>>>Sent: Thursday, August 10, 2006 7:21 PM
>>>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] You might be a real American
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>W,
>>>>
>>>>So according to you, anyone who has a tiny bit of religous faith in them
>>>>is
>>>>pathetically weak? Man I guess the billions that live in this world who
>>>>have
>>>>that faith are weak. Heck I tend to think one who can live their life
>>>>with
>>>>that belief of an unproven higher being as their creator, as more stronger
>>>>than one who can't even fathom that maybe, just maybe something is out
>>>>there.
>>>>
>>>>Matt
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>From: "Art Deco" <deco at moscow.com> <mailto:deco at moscow.com>
>>>>>To: "Vision 2020" <vision2020 at moscow.com> <mailto:vision2020 at moscow.com>
>>>>>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] You might be a real American
>>>>>Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2006 16:46:03 -0700
>>>>>
>>>>>Dick,
>>>>>
>>>>>Again your ignorance is appalling.
>>>>>
>>>>>I am a nonbeliever (not an atheist) which means that I believe the
>>>>>evidence
>>>>>purporting to establish supernatural claims including religious ones is
>>>>>such that the probability of the truth of any such claim is very close to
>>>>>zero. I remain open to new, verifiable evidence on the subject. The
>>>>>evidence given by the state of the world today is greatly against the
>>>>>existence of a benevolent, powerful deity. If such a state is evidence of
>>>>>a deity, it is evidence of a sadistic, bumbling one. Any fool who reads
>>>>>the news can see this. But you are not just any fool, you are a special
>>>>>one.
>>>>>
>>>>>I am sorry that you are so pathetically weak that you cannot live
>>>>>comfortably without your religious fantasies -- some of which appear to be
>>>>>crueler than those of Hitler.
>>>>>
>>>>>W.
>>>>>
>>>>>----- Original Message -----
>>>>>From: Dick Sherwin
>>>>>To: Vision2020 ; Art Deco
>>>>>Sent: Thursday, August 10, 2006 3:57 PM
>>>>>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] You might be a real American
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>What is appaling to me is your total loyalty to the cult of atheism which
>>>>>is little more than a religion of rejection of God.
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> From: Art Deco
>>>>> To: Vision 2020
>>>>> Sent: Thursday, August 10, 2006 3:21 PM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] You might be a real American
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Your ignorance is appalling.
>>>>>
>>>>> W.
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> From: Dick Sherwin
>>>>> To: Art Deco
>>>>> Sent: Thursday, August 10, 2006 1:32 PM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] You might be a real American
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I do not condem Christianity, or consider it a cult. You have quoted
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>from the Old Testament law, which was mitigated by Jesus through
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>atonement.
>>>>>
>>>>> Christians believe all sins not reiterated from the Old Testament to
>>>>>the
>>>>>New Testament were atoned for through the blood of Christ.
>>>>>
>>>>> Sorry, your little rouse was for no effect, unless you can quote to me
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>from the New Testament where these laws were carried forth from the OT.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Dick S.
>>>>>
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> From: Art Deco
>>>>> To: Vision 2020
>>>>> Sent: Thursday, August 10, 2006 9:24 AM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] You might be a real American
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Dick,
>>>>>
>>>>> You write:
>>>>>
>>>>> "I agree, everyone should have the right to worship as they believe,
>>>>>so long as their religion does not preach death and destruction on others
>>>>>because of their beliefs. "
>>>>>
>>>>> Do you then roundly and unequivocally condemn the religious cult that
>>>>>holds the following views?
>>>>>
>>>>> W.
>>>>>
>>>>> http://www.credenda.org/old/issues/vol3/magi3-9.htm
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> "The civil magistrate is the minister of God to execute wrath on the
>>>>>wrongdoer (Rom. 13:4). God has not left his civil minister without
>>>>>guidance
>>>>>on how to exercise his office. The Scriptures set forth clear standards of
>>>>>judgment for many offenses. Capital crimes, for example, include
>>>>>premeditated killing (murder), kidnapping, sorcery, bestiality, adultery,
>>>>>homosexuality, and cursing one's parents..."
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> "In contemporary American jurisprudence, none of these offenses is
>>>>>punishable by death, with the occasional exception of murder. The
>>>>>magistrates have dispensed with God's standards of justice. Some
>>>>>Christians
>>>>>believe this is an improvement. They would be horrified to think that the
>>>>>"harsh" penalties of the law should still be applied. Sometimes this is
>>>>>the
>>>>>result of the mistaken belief that the Old Testament has no further
>>>>>application after the advent of Christ. This is an exegetical problem. Too
>>>>>often, it is the result of a sinful view of the criminal. This sin is
>>>>>called pity."
>>>>>
>>>>> "If your brother, the son of your mother, your son or your daughter,
>>>>>the wife of your bosom, or your friend who is as your own soul, secretly
>>>>>entices you, saying, "Let us go and serve other gods,". . . you shall not
>>>>>consent to him or listen to him, nor shall your eye pity him, nor shall
>>>>>you
>>>>>spare him or conceal him; but you shall surely kill him..." [Heresy:
>>>>>Beware, ye not of the cult (including unconverted Jews)!]
>>>>>
>>>>> "If two men fight together, and the wife of one draws near to rescue
>>>>>her husband from the hand of the one attacking him, and puts out the hand
>>>>>and seizes him by the genitals, then you shall cut off her hand; your eye
>>>>>shall not pity her..."
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> God commands the judge to evaluate the crime rather than the
>>>>>criminal.
>>>>>If the crime is one for which God requires death, then death must be the
>>>>>punishment. Your eye shall not pity. Neither is the repentance of the
>>>>>accused relevant to the imposition of the sentence.
>>>>>
>>>>> "Thus, the Bible teaches that pity is not an option where God has
>>>>>decided the matter. The [civil] magistrate, God's minister, is to
>>>>>faithfully execute justice according to God's standard, not man's... This
>>>>>means that we must return to an obedience which confines pity within the
>>>>>bounds which God has established for us."
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> From: Dick Sherwin
>>>>> To: Vision2020 ; Paul Rumelhart
>>>>> Sent: Thursday, August 10, 2006 8:51 AM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] You might be a real American
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Paul Rumelhart wrote: "Your standards are too low. How about you
>>>>>are
>>>>>a True American if the ideas of freedom and liberty for all are important
>>>>>to you? That includes the freedom to believe whatever religion you wish,
>>>>>or none at all."
>>>>> ___________________________________________
>>>>>
>>>>> Personally, I am a little weary of embracing the "whatever religion
>>>>>you wish" syndrone. I agree, everyone should have the right to worship as
>>>>>they believe, so long as their religion does not preach death and
>>>>>destruction on others because of their beliefs. I am tired of the
>>>>>so-called "Religion of Peace" and their attempts to acquire maximum kill
>>>>>with their terrorist acts.
>>>>>
>>>>> As I said in my original post,
>>>>> "I believe this is apporpriate as well as accurate. I realize there
>>>>>are those who don't believe in any of this but to them all I have to say
>>>>>is, "Oh well!"
>>>>>
>>>>> May God bless you, even if you don't believe in Him.
>>>>>
>>>>> Dick S.
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> From: Paul Rumelhart
>>>>> To: Vision2020
>>>>> Sent: Thursday, August 10, 2006 8:35 AM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] You might be a real American
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> That's what it takes to be a True American? Not to be afraid to
>>>>>show you are a christian? Not to burn the flag? To respect veterans and
>>>>>your elders?
>>>>>
>>>>> Well, I almost made it. I'm not christian, so apparently I can't
>>>>>be
>>>>>a True American. Wonderful.
>>>>>
>>>>> Your standards are too low. How about you are a True American if
>>>>>the ideas of freedom and liberty for all are important to you? That
>>>>>includes the freedom to believe whatever religion you wish, or none at
>>>>>all.
>>>>>
>>>>> If you support the First Amendment, I would say you are on the path
>>>>>to being a "True American". If you care for your rights and the rights of
>>>>>others equally, I'd say you are a True American. If you get enraged when
>>>>>politicians "game the system", you are a True American.
>>>>>
>>>>> If you get angry when someone claims they are a "Patriot" when they
>>>>>really mean that they blindly support the government or the status quo,
>>>>>you
>>>>>are a True American. Look up what it really means to be a Patriot
>>>>>sometime. Start by imagining the courage it took for the Founding Fathers
>>>>>to sign the Declaration of Independence and ponder what would have
>>>>>happened
>>>>>to each of them if the revolution had failed.
>>>>>
>>>>> The true values of this country are getting lost in this
>>>>>"Christians
>>>>>- the World's Only Persecuted Majority" crap. What values that have
>>>>>managed to squeak through that mess are wantonly being pulverised by
>>>>>Corporate America. I'd say the truest sign of whether or not you are a
>>>>>True American is if you have had it up to here with all the crap that has
>>>>>happened in the last couple of decades.
>>>>>
>>>>> Paul
>>>>>
>>>>> Dick Sherwin wrote:
>>>>> I believe this is apporpriate as well as accurate. I realize
>>>>>there are those who don't believe in any of this but to them all I have to
>>>>>say is, "Oh well!"
>>>>>
>>>>> Dick S.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> It is time to change from REDNECK humor to TRUE AMERICAN
>>>>>Humor! Only I don't see it as Humor, but the correct way to LIVE YOUR
>>>>>LIFE ! If you feel the same, pass this on to your True American
>>>>>friends.
>>>>> Ya'll know who ya' are...
>>>>>
>>>>> You might be a TRUE AMERICAN if: It never occurred to you to
>>>>>be
>>>>>offended by the phrase, "One nation, under God."
>>>>>
>>>>> You might be a TRUE AMERICAN if: You've never protested about
>>>>>seeing the 10 Commandments posted in public places.
>>>>>
>>>>> You might be a TRUE AMERICAN if: You still say "Christmas"
>>>>>instead of "Winter Festival."
>>>>>
>>>>> You might be a TRUE AMERICAN if: You bow your head when someone
>>>>>prays.
>>>>>
>>>>> You might be a TRUE AMERICAN if: You stand and place your hand
>>>>>over your heart when they play the National Anthem.
>>>>>
>>>>> You might be a TRUE AMERICAN if: You treat Viet Nam vets with
>>>>>great respect, and always have.
>>>>>
>>>>> You might be a TRUE AMERICAN if: You've never burned an
>>>>>American
>>>>>flag.
>>>>>
>>>>> You might be a TRUE AMERICAN if: You know what you believe and
>>>>>you aren't afraid to say so, no matter who is listening.
>>>>>
>>>>> You might be a TRUE AMERICAN if: You respect your elders and
>>>>>expect your kids to do the same.
>>>>>
>>>>> You might be a TRUE AMERICAN if: You'd give your last dollar to
>>>>>a friend.
>>>>>
>>>>> If you got this email from me, it is because I believe that you,
>>>>>like me, have just enough TRUE AMERICAN in you to have the same
>>>>>beliefs as those talked about in this email.
>>>>>
>>>>> God Bless the U S A ! and may the U.S.A. BEGIN TO PRAISE
>>>>>AND
>>>>>WORSHIP GOD the way we used to!!!
>>>>>
>>>>>
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>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
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>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>_________________________________________________________________
>>>>Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE!
>>>>http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/
>>>>
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