[Vision2020] String Theory

Paul Rumelhart godshatter at yahoo.com
Mon Aug 14 22:34:45 PDT 2006


I must admit I've never had the opportunity to study this.  I've heard 
it has something to do with eleven dimensions, but I could be thinking 
of something else.

I have enough trouble with Special and General Relativity, let alone 
String Theory or even Quantum Mechanics.

I guess I need to find a book on it.  It's on my list of topics to learn 
about, right behind dark matter and dark energy.

I'm currently rereading Sagan's Cosmos for nostalgia.  I have Bohm's The 
Undiveded Universe; I plan to try to work my way through that next.

Paul

P.S.  Does anyone know what the current thinking is about whether the 
universe is Open or Closed?  Or have a good reference on dark matter or 
dark energy that isn't too technical?  My math classes were a couple of 
decades ago.

Ted Moffett wrote:

> All-
>  
> To have this discussion with no reference to Super String Theory (did 
> I miss it?) is like discussing
> genetic advances in medicine ignoring stem cells:
>  
> http://www.mkaku.org/
>  
> ----
> Ted Moffett
>
>
>  
> On 8/14/06, *Tony Simpson* <tonytime at clearwire.net 
> <mailto:tonytime at clearwire.net>> wrote:
>
>     Paul,
>     Time did not exist before the Big Bang?  Why not?  Is not time
>     simply a human construct?  A method by which we reference one
>     incident in relation to another?
>     The Big Bang the start of "space time"?  What is Space time?  My
>     understanding of the theory is that all existing matter in the
>     universe existed in a very dense state at one particular point in,
>     mind you, an endless void stretching in all directions.  Then,
>     BANG it explodes outward and to this day, continues to expand. 
>     Presumably at some point the expansion will slow, stop and then
>     reverse eventuating in another dense collection which would then
>     re explode over and over.....
>      
>     Well.
>      
>     Problem is, if the universe is without end at all,  how could
>     something without ANY perimeter, expand or contract at all?  One
>     could theorize that the universe is endless in all directions, but
>     that the matter we view in its varied forms only exists in our
>     relatively immediate vicinity.  Then there would be a perimeter
>     providing a point of reference for an expansion or contraction. 
>     But what of the void which extends, presumably in all directions
>     without end?  Why would there be a small collection of matter at
>     this particular vicinity and not scattered about infinitely as
>     well?  Is there some other form of matter or void that we haven't
>     the capacity to conceive of?  And in an infinite expanse filled
>     with an infinite array of matter, must there not also be an
>     infinite variety of life forms scattered about it?  How could
>     there not?  We are talking of an infinite universe WITHOUT a
>     perimeter.  Without any fixed point from which to reference from.
>      
>     I don't anticipate learning the answers to these questions in this
>     lifetime, but it would be fascinating, would it not?  For
>     there ARE answers.  There must be.  Would our minds be capable,
>     from their limited frame of reference, of grasping those answers? 
>      
>     This post risks becoming as endless as the universe itself, so
>     g'nite all.
>      
>     Happy contemplating,   --Tony
>
>         ----- Original Message -----
>         *From:* Paul Rumelhart <mailto:godshatter at yahoo.com>
>         *To:* vision2020 at moscow.com <mailto:vision2020 at moscow.com>
>         *Sent:* Friday, August 11, 2006 6:40 PM
>         *Subject:* Re: [Vision2020] You might be a real American
>
>          
>         The Big Bang, from what I understand, was the start of
>         spacetime, not just space.  Time did not exist before the Big
>         Bang, so it makes no sense to ask what happened before it. 
>         The commonly used analogous question is: "what is north of the
>         North Pole?"
>
>         And, yes, I don't think we'll ever really know the answer to
>         such questions.  All we can do is study the world around us,
>         hypothesize, make predictions, and see if our guesses hold up
>         to scrutiny and observable evidence. 
>
>         Paul
>
>         Tony Simpson wrote:
>
>>         Just curious Paul, What happened 20 minutes before the big
>>         bang?  There can not have been a beginning, could there? 
>>         Something, in some form must have preceded it...  certainly
>>         at least empty space existed.
>>          
>>         Isn't it a little silly of us to think we can ever answer
>>         such questions?
>>         --T----- Original Message -----
>>
>>             *From:* Paul Rumelhart <mailto:godshatter at yahoo.com>
>>             *To:* vision2020 at moscow.com <mailto:vision2020 at moscow.com>
>>             *Sent:* Thursday, August 10, 2006 9:02 PM
>>             *Subject:* Re: [Vision2020] You might be a real American
>>
>>              
>>             Unfortunately, the evidence seems to point towards the
>>             Big Bang.  The ratio of hydrogen to helium in the
>>             observable universe can be calculated based on the
>>             conditions that the universe would have had within the
>>             first five minutes of the Big Bang with a fairly good
>>             degree of accuracy.  The light that was being scattered
>>             all around by un-attached electrons and protons was
>>             predicted to have suddenly been able to shine out in a
>>             massive wave once the universe cooled to the right amount
>>             (about 300,000 years after the Big B) and the scattered
>>             electrons, protons, and neutrons combined together and
>>             stopped bouncing the light every which way.  It was
>>             predicted that we would be able to observe this wave of
>>             light, highly red-shifted, once our technology got
>>             better.  It was observed and was named the Cosmic
>>             Microwave Background radiation (CMB).  Observed galaxies
>>             were more red-shifted the farther away they were, which
>>             matched the theory.  Young baby galaxies are found mostly
>>             on the fringes of the universe, which you would expect
>>             based on the theory.  Small variations in the CMB were
>>             predicted because our galaxies could not have clumped
>>             together otherwise.  These variations were eventually
>>             found.  The theory is consistent with General
>>             Relativity.  There is no evidence for anything being
>>             older than 20 billion years, so if the universe had no
>>             beginning, why don't we see things older than that? 
>>             There are others, I'm sure.  I'm not a cosmologist, just
>>             interested in the subject matter.
>>
>>             Anyway, I'll leave Science to study the What, When, Where
>>             and How of the universe.  Theology can have Who and Why.
>>
>>             Paul
>>
>>             g. crabtree wrote:
>>
>>>All of creation the result of a sudden "big bang," the result of nobody 
>>>knows what or everything the result of an omnipotent Creator. Both seem 
>>>improbable but if I have to pick one, I like the idea of a benevolent, if 
>>>somewhat inscrutable God. I know for an absolute fact from youthful 
>>>experimentation that large explosions don't love me. (I'm mighty fond of 
>>>them, however. Talk about your unrequited affection.)
>>>
>>>gc
>>>----- Original Message ----- 
>>>From: "Matt Decker" <mattd2107 at hotmail.com> <mailto:mattd2107 at hotmail.com>
>>>To: <deco at moscow.com> <mailto:deco at moscow.com>; 
>>><vision2020 at moscow.com> <mailto:vision2020 at moscow.com>
>>>Sent: Thursday, August 10, 2006 7:21 PM
>>>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] You might be a real American
>>>
>>>
>>>  
>>>
>>>>W,
>>>>
>>>>So according to you, anyone who has a tiny bit of religous faith in them 
>>>>is
>>>>pathetically weak? Man I guess the billions that live in this world who 
>>>>have
>>>>that faith  are weak. Heck I tend to think one who can live their life 
>>>>with
>>>>that belief of an unproven higher being as their creator, as more stronger
>>>>than one who can't even fathom that maybe, just maybe something is out
>>>>there.
>>>>
>>>>Matt
>>>>
>>>>    
>>>>
>>>>>From: "Art Deco" <deco at moscow.com> <mailto:deco at moscow.com>
>>>>>To: "Vision 2020" <vision2020 at moscow.com> <mailto:vision2020 at moscow.com>
>>>>>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] You might be a real American
>>>>>Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2006 16:46:03 -0700
>>>>>
>>>>>Dick,
>>>>>
>>>>>Again your ignorance is appalling.
>>>>>
>>>>>I am a nonbeliever (not an atheist) which means that I believe the 
>>>>>evidence
>>>>>purporting to establish supernatural claims including religious ones is
>>>>>such that the probability of the truth of any such claim is very close to
>>>>>zero.  I remain open to new, verifiable evidence on the subject.  The
>>>>>evidence given by the state of the world today is greatly against the
>>>>>existence of a benevolent, powerful deity.  If such a state is evidence of
>>>>>a deity, it is evidence of a sadistic, bumbling one.  Any fool who reads
>>>>>the news can see this.  But you are not just any fool, you are a special
>>>>>one.
>>>>>
>>>>>I am sorry that you are so pathetically weak that you cannot live
>>>>>comfortably without your religious fantasies -- some of which appear to be
>>>>>crueler than those of Hitler.
>>>>>
>>>>>W.
>>>>>
>>>>>----- Original Message -----
>>>>>From: Dick Sherwin
>>>>>To: Vision2020 ; Art Deco
>>>>>Sent: Thursday, August 10, 2006 3:57 PM
>>>>>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] You might be a real American
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>What is appaling to me is your total loyalty to the cult of atheism which
>>>>>is little more than a religion of rejection of God.
>>>>>  ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>  From: Art Deco
>>>>>  To: Vision 2020
>>>>>  Sent: Thursday, August 10, 2006 3:21 PM
>>>>>  Subject: Re: [Vision2020] You might be a real American
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>  Your ignorance is appalling.
>>>>>
>>>>>  W.
>>>>>  ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>  From: Dick Sherwin
>>>>>  To: Art Deco
>>>>>  Sent: Thursday, August 10, 2006 1:32 PM
>>>>>  Subject: Re: [Vision2020] You might be a real American
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>  I do not condem Christianity, or consider it a cult.  You have quoted
>>>>>      
>>>>>
>>>>>from the Old Testament law, which was mitigated by Jesus through 
>>>>    
>>>>
>>>>>atonement.
>>>>>
>>>>>  Christians believe all sins not reiterated from the Old Testament to 
>>>>>the
>>>>>New Testament were atoned for through the blood of Christ.
>>>>>
>>>>>  Sorry, your little rouse was for no effect, unless you can quote to me
>>>>>      
>>>>>
>>>>>from the New Testament where these laws were carried forth from the OT.
>>>>    
>>>>
>>>>>  Dick S.
>>>>>
>>>>>    ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>    From: Art Deco
>>>>>    To: Vision 2020
>>>>>    Sent: Thursday, August 10, 2006 9:24 AM
>>>>>    Subject: Re: [Vision2020] You might be a real American
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>    Dick,
>>>>>
>>>>>    You write:
>>>>>
>>>>>    "I agree, everyone should have the right to worship as they believe,
>>>>>so long as their religion does not preach death and destruction on others
>>>>>because of their beliefs. "
>>>>>
>>>>>    Do you then roundly and unequivocally condemn the religious cult that
>>>>>holds the following views?
>>>>>
>>>>>    W.
>>>>>
>>>>>    http://www.credenda.org/old/issues/vol3/magi3-9.htm
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>    "The civil magistrate is the minister of God to execute wrath on the
>>>>>wrongdoer (Rom. 13:4). God has not left his civil minister without 
>>>>>guidance
>>>>>on how to exercise his office. The Scriptures set forth clear standards of
>>>>>judgment for many offenses. Capital crimes, for example, include
>>>>>premeditated killing (murder), kidnapping, sorcery, bestiality, adultery,
>>>>>homosexuality, and cursing one's parents..."
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>    "In contemporary American jurisprudence, none of these offenses is
>>>>>punishable by death, with the occasional exception of murder. The
>>>>>magistrates have dispensed with God's standards of justice. Some 
>>>>>Christians
>>>>>believe this is an improvement. They would be horrified to think that the
>>>>>"harsh" penalties of the law should still be applied. Sometimes this is 
>>>>>the
>>>>>result of the mistaken belief that the Old Testament has no further
>>>>>application after the advent of Christ. This is an exegetical problem. Too
>>>>>often, it is the result of a sinful view of the criminal. This sin is
>>>>>called pity."
>>>>>
>>>>>    "If your brother, the son of your mother, your son or your daughter,
>>>>>the wife of your bosom, or your friend who is as your own soul, secretly
>>>>>entices you, saying, "Let us go and serve other gods,". . . you shall not
>>>>>consent to him or listen to him, nor shall your eye pity him, nor shall 
>>>>>you
>>>>>spare him or conceal him; but you shall surely kill him..."  [Heresy:
>>>>>Beware, ye not of the cult (including unconverted Jews)!]
>>>>>
>>>>>    "If two men fight together, and the wife of one draws near to rescue
>>>>>her husband from the hand of the one attacking him, and puts out the hand
>>>>>and seizes him by the genitals, then you shall cut off her hand; your eye
>>>>>shall not pity her..."
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>    God commands the judge to evaluate the crime rather than the 
>>>>>criminal.
>>>>>If the crime is one for which God requires death, then death must be the
>>>>>punishment. Your eye shall not pity. Neither is the repentance of the
>>>>>accused relevant to the imposition of the sentence.
>>>>>
>>>>>    "Thus, the Bible teaches that pity is not an option where God has
>>>>>decided the matter. The [civil] magistrate, God's minister, is to
>>>>>faithfully execute justice according to God's standard, not man's...  This
>>>>>means that we must return to an obedience which confines pity within the
>>>>>bounds which God has established for us."
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>    ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>    From: Dick Sherwin
>>>>>    To: Vision2020 ; Paul Rumelhart
>>>>>    Sent: Thursday, August 10, 2006 8:51 AM
>>>>>    Subject: Re: [Vision2020] You might be a real American
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>    Paul Rumelhart wrote:  "Your standards are too low.  How about you 
>>>>>are
>>>>>a True American if the ideas of freedom and liberty for all are important
>>>>>to you?  That includes the freedom to believe whatever religion you wish,
>>>>>or none at all."
>>>>>    ___________________________________________
>>>>>
>>>>>    Personally, I am a little weary of embracing the "whatever religion
>>>>>you wish" syndrone.  I agree, everyone should have the right to worship as
>>>>>they believe, so long as their religion does not preach death and
>>>>>destruction on others because of their beliefs.  I am tired of the
>>>>>so-called "Religion of Peace" and their attempts to acquire maximum kill
>>>>>with their terrorist acts.
>>>>>
>>>>>    As I said in my original post,
>>>>>    "I believe this is apporpriate as well as accurate.  I realize there
>>>>>are those who don't believe in any of this but to them all I have to say
>>>>>is, "Oh well!"
>>>>>
>>>>>    May God bless you, even if you don't believe in Him.
>>>>>
>>>>>    Dick S.
>>>>>      ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>      From: Paul Rumelhart
>>>>>      To: Vision2020
>>>>>      Sent: Thursday, August 10, 2006 8:35 AM
>>>>>      Subject: Re: [Vision2020] You might be a real American
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>      That's what it takes to be a True American?  Not to be afraid to
>>>>>show you are a christian?  Not to burn the flag?  To respect veterans and
>>>>>your elders?
>>>>>
>>>>>      Well, I almost made it.  I'm not christian, so apparently I can't 
>>>>>be
>>>>>a True American.  Wonderful.
>>>>>
>>>>>      Your standards are too low.  How about you are a True American if
>>>>>the ideas of freedom and liberty for all are important to you?  That
>>>>>includes the freedom to believe whatever religion you wish, or none at 
>>>>>all.
>>>>>
>>>>>      If you support the First Amendment, I would say you are on the path
>>>>>to being a "True American".  If you care for your rights and the rights of
>>>>>others equally, I'd say you are a True American.  If you get enraged when
>>>>>politicians "game the system", you are a True American.
>>>>>
>>>>>      If you get angry when someone claims they are a "Patriot" when they
>>>>>really mean that they blindly support the government or the status quo, 
>>>>>you
>>>>>are a True American.  Look up what it really means to be a Patriot
>>>>>sometime.  Start by imagining the courage it took for the Founding Fathers
>>>>>to sign the Declaration of Independence and ponder what would have 
>>>>>happened
>>>>>to each of them if the revolution had failed.
>>>>>
>>>>>      The true values of this country are getting lost in this 
>>>>>"Christians
>>>>>- the World's Only Persecuted Majority" crap.  What values that have
>>>>>managed to squeak through that mess are wantonly being pulverised by
>>>>>Corporate America.  I'd say the truest sign of whether or not you are a
>>>>>True American is if you have had it up to here with all the crap that has
>>>>>happened in the last couple of decades.
>>>>>
>>>>>      Paul
>>>>>
>>>>>      Dick Sherwin wrote:
>>>>>        I believe this is apporpriate as well as accurate.  I realize
>>>>>there are those who don't believe in any of this but to them all I have to
>>>>>say is, "Oh well!"
>>>>>
>>>>>        Dick S.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>        It is time to  change from REDNECK  humor to   TRUE  AMERICAN
>>>>>Humor! Only I don't see it as Humor, but the correct way to   LIVE YOUR
>>>>>LIFE !  If  you feel the same, pass this on to your True  American 
>>>>>friends.
>>>>> Ya'll know who ya' are...
>>>>>
>>>>>        You might be a TRUE AMERICAN if:   It  never occurred to you to 
>>>>>be
>>>>>offended by the phrase, "One nation, under  God."
>>>>>
>>>>>        You  might be a TRUE AMERICAN if:  You've never protested about
>>>>>seeing the 10 Commandments posted in  public  places.
>>>>>
>>>>>        You  might be a TRUE AMERICAN if: You  still say "Christmas"
>>>>>instead of "Winter Festival."
>>>>>
>>>>>        You  might be a TRUE AMERICAN if: You  bow your head when someone
>>>>>prays.
>>>>>
>>>>>        You  might be a TRUE AMERICAN if: You  stand and place your hand
>>>>>over your heart when   they  play the National Anthem.
>>>>>
>>>>>        You  might be a TRUE AMERICAN if: You  treat Viet  Nam  vets with
>>>>>great respect, and always have.
>>>>>
>>>>>        You  might be a TRUE AMERICAN if: You've  never burned an 
>>>>>American
>>>>>flag.
>>>>>
>>>>>        You  might be a TRUE AMERICAN if: You  know what you believe and
>>>>>you aren't afraid to say so, no matter who is  listening.
>>>>>
>>>>>        You  might be a TRUE AMERICAN if: You  respect your elders and
>>>>>expect your kids to do the same.
>>>>>
>>>>>        You  might be a TRUE AMERICAN if: You'd  give your last dollar to
>>>>>a friend.
>>>>>
>>>>>        If  you got this email from me, it is because I believe that you,
>>>>>like me,  have just  enough   TRUE  AMERICAN in  you to have the same
>>>>>beliefs as those talked about in this email.
>>>>>
>>>>>        God Bless the U   S  A  !   and may the U.S.A. BEGIN TO PRAISE 
>>>>>AND
>>>>>WORSHIP GOD the way we used to!!!
>>>>>
>>>>>
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>>>>>
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>>>>>
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>>>>>     serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
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>>>>>
>>>>>------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>  =======================================================
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>>>>>   serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
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>>>>>      
>>>>>
>>>>    
>>>>
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>>>>> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
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>>>>>      
>>>>>
>>>>_________________________________________________________________
>>>>Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE!
>>>>http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/
>>>>
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>>>
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