[Vision2020] Lessons

Mon Aug 14 15:53:58 PDT 2006

The fact that the folks at New West were willing to close ranks behind one 
of there own does not come as much of a surprise and most assuredly does not 
do anything to change the fact that there are changes between the first 
version of the article and the last. All of those changes are to indicate 
Gier as the author of the piece. If the first version was so clear, why were 
the changes made? Just to satisfy Mr. Courtney? I very much doubt it. I 
believe that the long and the short of this sad story is that someone pulled 
the trigger on the original piece before it was adequately proof read and it 
went out ambiguous. Mr. Courtney called them on it, they squealed and whined 
and denied and ultimately cleaned up the piece, where upon Dale backed off. 
Seems simple to me and hardly worth all this overwrought hyperbole. Sorry if 
I interfered in ya'lls favorite little game of aspersion casting.

gc
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Saundra Lund" <sslund at adelphia.net>
To: "'g. crabtree'" <jampot at adelphia.net>; <vision2020 at moscow.com>
Sent: Monday, August 14, 2006 12:42 PM
Subject: RE: [Vision2020] Lessons

> Mr. Crabtree,
>
> Again, you wrote:
> ". . . the New West article to which she refers originally went out sans
> attribution or any mention what so ever of Prof. Nick Gier. . . "
>
> That statement is incorrect -- attribution to Dr. Gier was there FROM THE
> BEGINNING, albeit at the end of the article.
>
> And that, kind sir, was my point:  Dale Courtney was once again attempting
> to make much ado out of nothing -- something he's prone to doing -- and 
> I'm
> sorry you were sucked into his disingenuous agenda.  However, that doesn't
> change the fact that attribution was *always* present, unless you are
> willing to tell me that *you* saw the article before I did, read it 
> through
> and through, and are willing to state -- on your honor -- that the Dr. 
> Gier
> attribution I saw wasn't there.  I'm more than happy to state -- on *my*
> honor -- that attribution was definitely present from the first time I saw
> the article.  In which case, contacting New West is a simple enough
> proposition.
>
> Actually, New West already put this silliness to bed -- here's what one of
> their editors had to say about Dale's shameful attempt:
> "By Jill Kuraitis, 8-12-06
> One more time and then enough of this idiocy. Dale, when Joan first posted
> the article it DID have attribution...it was at the bottom and you simply
> missed it. At that point, it would have been the civilized thing for you 
> to
> say oops sorry, end of story. An "honest mistake" on your part.
>
> This article was never posted under just Joan's name. For you to forge 
> ahead
> with your slander is intolerable. Stop it. You are completely out of 
> line."
> http://www.newwest.net/index.php/city/article/10748/C136/L136
>
> Hear, hear to Ms. Kuraitis!  Are you willing to accept New West's 
> statement
> of the facts, Mr. Crabtree, or do you want to continue to be suckered by
> Dale Courtney's dishonesty?
>
>
> Saundra Lund
> Moscow, ID
>
> The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good people to do
> nothing.
> - Edmund Burke
>
> ***** Original material contained herein is Copyright 2006, Saundra Lund.
> Do not copy, forward, excerpt, or reproduce outside the Vision 2020 forum
> without the express written permission of the author.*****
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: g. crabtree [mailto:jampot at adelphia.net]
> Sent: Monday, August 14, 2006 11:54 AM
> To: Saundra Lund; 'J Ford'; vision2020 at moscow.com
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Lessons
>
> Ms. Lund,  just one simple question. Has the article changed in any way 
> from
> the original posting to the form that Ms. Woolf provided the link to? If
> there's going to be any "intellectual honesty" you will have to admit that
> it has. The original did not make it clear that Gier was the author. The
> fact that the piece has been modified, bears out my contention.
>
> gc
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Saundra Lund" <sslund at adelphia.net>
> To: "'g. crabtree'" <jampot at adelphia.net>; "'J Ford'"
> <privatejf32 at hotmail.com>; <vision2020 at moscow.com>
> Sent: Monday, August 14, 2006 10:54 AM
> Subject: RE: [Vision2020] Lessons
>
>
>> Hi Mr. Crabtree,
>>
>> You wrote:
>> ". . . the New West article to which she refers originally went out sans
>> attribution or any mention what so ever of Prof. Nick Gier. . ."
>>
>> Are you sure?  I think you're wrong.  When I first looked at the
>> article --
>> which was before Dale Courtney's mistaken and potentially actionable 
>> hissy
>> fit --  the correct attribution was at the *bottom* of the article.
>> Perhaps
>> you missed it, too?  Or, are you just taking Dale Courtney's word for it?
>> If so, *huge* mistake on your part, IMHO.
>>
>>
>> Saundra Lund
>> Moscow, ID
>>
>> The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good people to do
>> nothing.
>> - Edmund Burke
>>
>> ***** Original material contained herein is Copyright 2006, Saundra Lund.
>> Do not copy, forward, excerpt, or reproduce outside the Vision 2020 forum
>> without the express written permission of the author.*****
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: vision2020-bounces at moscow.com 
>> [mailto:vision2020-bounces at moscow.com]
>> On Behalf Of g. crabtree
>> Sent: Monday, August 14, 2006 6:17 AM
>> To: J Ford; vision2020 at moscow.com
>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Lessons
>>
>> In all fairness, and not that Ms. Woolf will care, the New West article 
>> to
>> which she refers originally went out sans attribution or any mention what
>> so
>> ever of Prof. Nick Gier as the author. This gave the appearance that the
>> article was written by Ms. Opyr. When Ms. Opyr and New West made their
>> correction, Mr. Courtney withdrew his criticism. This would appear to be
>> another case of hysterically shrieking for an apology where none is
>> required. A tediously familiar occurrence from certain members of this
>> forum.
>>
>> gc
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "J Ford" <privatejf32 at hotmail.com>
>> To: <vision2020 at moscow.com>
>> Sent: Monday, August 14, 2006 2:00 AM
>> Subject: [Vision2020] Lessons
>>
>>
>>> Another perfect example of Dougie's teachings:
>>>
>>> As in July, and just as his "pastor" had taught him by example, Dale
>>> Courtney, on HIS blog, made an accusation that proves the CC/kirkers are
>>> not
>>> beyond making an accusation without proof and then not apologizing for 
>>> it
>>> when caught.
>>>
>>> See
>>>
>>> http://www.newwest.net/index.php/city/article/10748/C136/L136
>>>
>>> Also just as Dougie has so well trained him, Dale refuses to acknowledge
>>> his
>>> mistake and take his lumps.  In other words - he messed up and refuses 
>>> to
>>> clean up his mess.  Well, ok - so he took it off his blog, but you can
>>> still
>>> read his idiocy on the above link.
>>>
>>> Gee - go figure.  Lesson well taught and lesson well learned.  Dougie
>>> must
>>> be SO proud.
>>>
>>>
>>> J  :]
>>>
>>> _________________________________________________________________
>>> On the road to retirement? Check out MSN Life Events for advice on how 
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>>
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