[Vision2020] Nick, Saundra and the Princess
Joe Campbell
joekc at adelphia.net
Mon Aug 14 14:38:57 PDT 2006
Dick,
Nick Gier is not anti-Christian. He is critical of certain contemporary political movements that have a loose connection to Christianity. That is not the same thing as being anti-Christian.
I think I learn as much about Christianity as anything else by reading Nick's writings. I never feel personally offended by his comments.
--
Joe Campbell
---- Dick Sherwin <rvrcowboy at clearwire.net> wrote:
=============
Thanks Keely,
That was well said. I agree with 95% of what you say. I do have a problem
with Nick Gier however. That is the fact he never misses a chance to take a
dig at Christianity or our culture. Oh sure, he professes to care and to be
ever so tolerant but after reading several of his posts it becomes obvious
that he is not.
I know I should just ignore it and move on but his self-richetous banter and
bragging about all the places he has visited (likely at the expense of the
taxpayers), gets under my skin. I suppose we all have certain types who are
capable of lighting our fuse and Nick is that type to me. Maybe it is
because I have met so many like him who are in a position to pollute young
minds with their insolence toward God, country and all that is good. (my
opinion)
I pray the stresses of your life lessen and allow you more freedom with your
time.
Dick S.
----- Original Message -----
From: "keely emerinemix" <kjajmix1 at msn.com>
To: <tonytime at clearwire.net>; <sslund at adelphia.net>
Cc: <vision2020 at moscow.com>
Sent: Monday, August 14, 2006 9:00 AM
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Nick, Saundra and the Princess
> As someone who owes her very life to Christ's atonement on the cross --
yep,
> body piercing saved my life! -- I have a few thoughts:
>
> I've been staying out of this thread not because of disinterest -- some of
> you may recall that I have rather strong views on religion -- but because
> I'm up to mine in alligators trying to coordinate the remodelling of a
> house, find a renter for our apartment, and accommodate yet another wave
of
> houseguests. It's one of the few times in my life when I've been too busy
> to wade in to something that matters greatly to me. But before the
painter
> requires my attention this morning, I'd like to make a few points,
provoked
> as I am by Tony's response to Saundra, below.
>
> It shouldn't come as a surprise to anyone that I am in near total
agreement
> with the theology espoused by Princess LackingHuevos, who, in his/her
> anonymity, has done an able job of defending the classic, orthodox
Christian
> doctrine of Christ's atonement on the cross. I could, however, do without
> the Princess' continued harangue toward my friend Nick Gier, who doesn't
> agree with the classic, orthodox Christian doctrine of Christ's
atonement --
> in fact, he finds it rather off-putting. Why this surprises, much less
> offends, the Princess would be puzzling were it not for said royalty's
> history of disrespect and rudeness toward those who hold to beliefs he
> doesn't, both from inside or outside of the fold. I think it's clear to
all
> that while Sushitushi is an apt defender of the doctrines of the faith,
the
> tone taken indicates that he/she is also a poor imitator of the One those
> doctrines point to.
>
> Nick Gier isn't a Christian. That's not a judgment on my part; it's not
to
> say that he's not kind, gracious, loving, gentle and merciful. He is all
of
> those things, as are many people who don't claim Christ as their Savior.
> Those who call on the name of the Lord Jesus are rightfully counted as
> Christians, and those who don't, aren't. If Nick has made it clear that
he
> has found satisfaction and solace in other faith traditions apart from the
> essential doctrines of Christianity, then why would anyone who claims to
be
> a Christian take such a nasty approach in acknowledging their doctrinal
> differences? This isn't the pastor of First Evangelical Christian
Community
> Tabernacle who's denying the historic teachings of the faith -- that would
> be worrisome -- but a scholar who is not a professing Christian. Nick
Gier
> isn't an "enemy" who needs to be contained or disarmed. He's a man who
> believes that the things Sushitushi believes are lacking in reason,
> distasteful, or, for whatever reason, simply not for him. There is
nothing
> about that that should invite snotty, mocking rejoinders from those who do
> believe. Nick and I are friends; he admires me and I admire him, even as
we
> disagree on virtually every point of evangelical theology. God forbid I
> should attempt to assert my "rightness" apart from common decency or
> Spirit-filled righteousness.
>
> Now, I don't know if the Princess is Doug Jones, Chris Witmer, Ben Merkle
or
> any other leader or defender of the Kirk. I don't much care. I do lament
> that the Princess is unable to fairly and honestly belly up to the bar by
> using his/her real name, but I suppose it's tempting to want to revel in
> rudeness without the messy consequences of doing so without the cloak of
> anonymity. His arguments might be mature and well-thought out, but it's a
> little difficult to be swayed by someone who can't bring him/herself to
> using their given moniker. And I'm assuming it's someone from the Kirk,
> because of the fervor of support for the leadership and, sadly, because of
> the cogency of the argument -- most evangelical churches have not raised
an
> army of able, apt defenders of the Gospel, and if they did, I imagine
they'd
> be glowing with pride and unable to do so anonymously.
>
> In my reading over the weekend, I came upon something that I think puts it
> all into context far better than I have, and will perhaps be a benefit to
> those who practice imprecatory prayer, are dismissive of their theological
> "enemies," and exalt classical academia over common decency:
>
> "Bless those who persecute you, don't curse them, pray that God will bless
> them. Be happy with those who are happy, and weep with those who weep.
> Live in harmony with each other. Don't be too proud to enjoy the company
of
> ordinary people. And don't think you know it all! Never pay back evil
with
> more evil. Do things in such a way that everyone can see you are
honorable.
> Do all that you can to live in peace with everyone . . . " (Romans
> 12:14-18)
>
> keely
>
>
>
>
> From: "Tony Simpson" <tonytime at clearwire.net>
> To: "Saundra Lund" <sslund at adelphia.net>
> CC: vision2020 at moscow.com
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] True Muslims and True Americans
> Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2006 02:08:38 -0700
>
> WOW SAUNDRA, you rail on for the bulk of your post at Taro Tanaka without
> ever ONCE addressing the very thoughtful arguments she presented. What's
> the problem Dear? Out of your intellectual league?
>
> Fed up with the enemies of reason, --Tony
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Saundra Lund" <sslund at adelphia.net>
> To: <vision2020 at moscow.com>
> Sent: Saturday, August 12, 2006 9:42 AM
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] True Muslims and True Americans
>
>
> > "Taro Tankara" aka "Princess Sushitushi" aka "Princess Camera-Shy" aka
> > "Princess Who Rushes in Where Trespassers Fear to Tread" aka "Prince
Pay
> > No
> > Attention to the Man Behind the Curtain" aka "Prince Late-for-Dinner"
aka
> > "Prince in One Hour or You Don't Pay!" aka "Princess
> > Putnotthytrustinprinces" aka "Prince Albasilas Monachus" aka "The
> Princess
> > Formerly Known as Prince" aka "Prince McPauper" aka "Princess
Forlornia,
> > Ever Hopeful Frog Kisser" aka "Shining Prince Stanley Nicholson Genji"
> aka
> > "Prince Eduardo Cigarro" wrote:
> > "I'm almost afraid to reply to Nick, because each time he comes back
with
> > something nuttier than before."
> >
> > No, sorry -- that would be Taro Tanaka with the multitude of alias,
none
> > of
> > which are real names.
> >
> > This V2020 poster reminds me of one of the Edna's -- the one who
couldn't
> > decide whether to post as a male or female.
> >
> > One who hasn't made the leap of faith to accept God's grace might
> conclude
> > that it is Christianity, rather than cowards afraid to sign their own
> > names,
> > that causes gender confusion ;-)
> >
> >
> > JMHO,
> > Saundra Lund
> > Moscow, ID
> >
> > The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good people to
do
> > nothing.
> > - Edmund Burke
> >
> > ***** Original material contained herein is Copyright 2006, Saundra
Lund.
> > Do not copy, forward, excerpt, or reproduce outside the Vision 2020
forum
> > without the express written permission of the author.*****
> >
> >
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>
>
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