[Vision2020] True Muslims and True Americans
taro_tanaka at hotmail.com
Sat Aug 12 17:14:18 PDT 2006
Before replying to Nick Gier's distortions, I should point out that my
original purpose in writing was to provide Nick with an opportunity to
expose his own hypocrisy regarding "respecting all religious beliefs" -- as
he clearly has no respect whatsoever for Bible-believing Christianity -- and
I would like to thank Nick for graciously helping to establish my point by
providing more evidence of his hypocrisy with every additional posting.
Nick's assertions are in brackets ([[ ]]).
[[ By saying the blood is not the issue in Christian atonement, the Princess
is conceding my point about "actual blood sacrifice" being a very primitive
notion of atonement, and one that should be rejected. And that was the
point of the comment that my Indian Christian friend made after singing
hymns talking about being "cleansed by the blood of the Lamb." ]]
I have conceded nothing. A single drop of the Messiah's infinitely precious
blood would more be adequate to redeem the entire world, but zero shedding
of his blood would have been out of the question. Nick is exceedingly
confused if he thinks he can make the logical leap from "It is theoretically
possible that Jesus could have been crucified with very little shedding of
blood if the Romans had wanted to minimize loss of blood" to concluding that
"Jesus' death upon the cross was not an actual blood sacrifice."
One Bible verse alone is adequate to disprove Nick's assertion: ". . . one
of the soldiers with a spear pierced his side, and forthwith came there out
blood and water." (John 19:34)
However there are not one but fully 30 distinct passages in 13 separate
books of the Greek scriptures, including all four gospels, that mention the
shedding of the Messiah's blood on the cross, each passage using the word
blood to clearly mean blood. The number would be much higher if we included
other verses that clearly imply the shedding of blood, such as "Worthy is
the Lamb that was slain" in Rev. 5:12.
Probably the most important of these for the present refutation is the
extended discussion of the Messsiah's shedding of His own blood in Hebrews
chapters 9 and 10. If anyone wants a complete list of all the pertinent
verses I would be happy to provide it.
[[ I elevate both Christ and Buddha as spiritual leaders because of their
total inclusiveness, their admonitions about "judge not lest ye be judged,"
and their emphasis on conduct rather than doctrine. ]]
I'll let "inclusive" Jesus Himself answer Nick on this one:
"Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of
". . . whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my
Father which is in heaven. Think not that I am come to send peace on earth:
I came not to send peace, but a sword. For I am come to set a man at
variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the
daughter in law against her mother in law. And a man's foes shall be they of
his own household. He that loveth father or mother more than me is not
worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy
"For unto every one that hath shall be given, and he shall have abundance:
but from him that hath not shall be taken away even that which he hath. And
cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping
and gnashing of teeth."
"Then shall the Son of man say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from
me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels"
"But this thou hast, that thou hatest the deeds of the Nicolaitans, which I
"So hast thou also them that hold the doctrine of the Nicolaitans, which
thing I hate." (SO MUCH FOR NICK'S ASSERTION OF DE-EMPHASIS OF DOCTRINE)
"He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he
shall be my son. But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and
murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars,
shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone:
which is the second death."
Those are just a few of the utterances by Jesus in this vein. They will pop
right out at you in any red-letter edition of the Bible.
I'd like point out something of which Nick is probably aware: the word
"Christ" is a reference to Jesus' status as king. It cannot be denied that
Jesus of Nazareth is either what He claimed to be -- divine, alive even now,
and our king, or else He was a lunatic and is dead. If the latter, then He
is not a great spiritual leader but a fraud. And if the former, then He is
not something to which Buddha can be compared because it means that Buddha
must be a fraud. You can't have it both ways, Nick.
-- Princess Sushitushi
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