[Vision2020] You might be a real American
Paul Rumelhart
godshatter at yahoo.com
Fri Aug 11 18:40:01 PDT 2006
The Big Bang, from what I understand, was the start of spacetime, not
just space. Time did not exist before the Big Bang, so it makes no
sense to ask what happened before it. The commonly used analogous
question is: "what is north of the North Pole?"
And, yes, I don't think we'll ever really know the answer to such
questions. All we can do is study the world around us, hypothesize,
make predictions, and see if our guesses hold up to scrutiny and
observable evidence.
Paul
Tony Simpson wrote:
> Just curious Paul, What happened 20 minutes before the big bang?
> There can not have been a beginning, could there? Something, in some
> form must have preceded it... certainly at least empty space existed.
>
> Isn't it a little silly of us to think we can ever answer such questions?
> --T----- Original Message -----
>
> *From:* Paul Rumelhart <mailto:godshatter at yahoo.com>
> *To:* vision2020 at moscow.com <mailto:vision2020 at moscow.com>
> *Sent:* Thursday, August 10, 2006 9:02 PM
> *Subject:* Re: [Vision2020] You might be a real American
>
> Unfortunately, the evidence seems to point towards the Big Bang.
> The ratio of hydrogen to helium in the observable universe can be
> calculated based on the conditions that the universe would have
> had within the first five minutes of the Big Bang with a fairly
> good degree of accuracy. The light that was being scattered all
> around by un-attached electrons and protons was predicted to have
> suddenly been able to shine out in a massive wave once the
> universe cooled to the right amount (about 300,000 years after the
> Big B) and the scattered electrons, protons, and neutrons combined
> together and stopped bouncing the light every which way. It was
> predicted that we would be able to observe this wave of light,
> highly red-shifted, once our technology got better. It was
> observed and was named the Cosmic Microwave Background radiation
> (CMB). Observed galaxies were more red-shifted the farther away
> they were, which matched the theory. Young baby galaxies are
> found mostly on the fringes of the universe, which you would
> expect based on the theory. Small variations in the CMB were
> predicted because our galaxies could not have clumped together
> otherwise. These variations were eventually found. The theory is
> consistent with General Relativity. There is no evidence for
> anything being older than 20 billion years, so if the universe had
> no beginning, why don't we see things older than that? There are
> others, I'm sure. I'm not a cosmologist, just interested in the
> subject matter.
>
> Anyway, I'll leave Science to study the What, When, Where and How
> of the universe. Theology can have Who and Why.
>
> Paul
>
> g. crabtree wrote:
>
>>All of creation the result of a sudden "big bang," the result of nobody
>>knows what or everything the result of an omnipotent Creator. Both seem
>>improbable but if I have to pick one, I like the idea of a benevolent, if
>>somewhat inscrutable God. I know for an absolute fact from youthful
>>experimentation that large explosions don't love me. (I'm mighty fond of
>>them, however. Talk about your unrequited affection.)
>>
>>gc
>>----- Original Message -----
>>From: "Matt Decker" <mattd2107 at hotmail.com>
>>To: <deco at moscow.com>; <vision2020 at moscow.com>
>>Sent: Thursday, August 10, 2006 7:21 PM
>>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] You might be a real American
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>W,
>>>
>>>So according to you, anyone who has a tiny bit of religous faith in them
>>>is
>>>pathetically weak? Man I guess the billions that live in this world who
>>>have
>>>that faith are weak. Heck I tend to think one who can live their life
>>>with
>>>that belief of an unproven higher being as their creator, as more stronger
>>>than one who can't even fathom that maybe, just maybe something is out
>>>there.
>>>
>>>Matt
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>From: "Art Deco" <deco at moscow.com>
>>>>To: "Vision 2020" <vision2020 at moscow.com>
>>>>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] You might be a real American
>>>>Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2006 16:46:03 -0700
>>>>
>>>>Dick,
>>>>
>>>>Again your ignorance is appalling.
>>>>
>>>>I am a nonbeliever (not an atheist) which means that I believe the
>>>>evidence
>>>>purporting to establish supernatural claims including religious ones is
>>>>such that the probability of the truth of any such claim is very close to
>>>>zero. I remain open to new, verifiable evidence on the subject. The
>>>>evidence given by the state of the world today is greatly against the
>>>>existence of a benevolent, powerful deity. If such a state is evidence of
>>>>a deity, it is evidence of a sadistic, bumbling one. Any fool who reads
>>>>the news can see this. But you are not just any fool, you are a special
>>>>one.
>>>>
>>>>I am sorry that you are so pathetically weak that you cannot live
>>>>comfortably without your religious fantasies -- some of which appear to be
>>>>crueler than those of Hitler.
>>>>
>>>>W.
>>>>
>>>>----- Original Message -----
>>>>From: Dick Sherwin
>>>>To: Vision2020 ; Art Deco
>>>>Sent: Thursday, August 10, 2006 3:57 PM
>>>>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] You might be a real American
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>What is appaling to me is your total loyalty to the cult of atheism which
>>>>is little more than a religion of rejection of God.
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: Art Deco
>>>> To: Vision 2020
>>>> Sent: Thursday, August 10, 2006 3:21 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] You might be a real American
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Your ignorance is appalling.
>>>>
>>>> W.
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: Dick Sherwin
>>>> To: Art Deco
>>>> Sent: Thursday, August 10, 2006 1:32 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] You might be a real American
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I do not condem Christianity, or consider it a cult. You have quoted
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>from the Old Testament law, which was mitigated by Jesus through
>>>
>>>
>>>>atonement.
>>>>
>>>> Christians believe all sins not reiterated from the Old Testament to
>>>>the
>>>>New Testament were atoned for through the blood of Christ.
>>>>
>>>> Sorry, your little rouse was for no effect, unless you can quote to me
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>from the New Testament where these laws were carried forth from the OT.
>>>
>>>
>>>> Dick S.
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: Art Deco
>>>> To: Vision 2020
>>>> Sent: Thursday, August 10, 2006 9:24 AM
>>>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] You might be a real American
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Dick,
>>>>
>>>> You write:
>>>>
>>>> "I agree, everyone should have the right to worship as they believe,
>>>>so long as their religion does not preach death and destruction on others
>>>>because of their beliefs. "
>>>>
>>>> Do you then roundly and unequivocally condemn the religious cult that
>>>>holds the following views?
>>>>
>>>> W.
>>>>
>>>> http://www.credenda.org/old/issues/vol3/magi3-9.htm
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> "The civil magistrate is the minister of God to execute wrath on the
>>>>wrongdoer (Rom. 13:4). God has not left his civil minister without
>>>>guidance
>>>>on how to exercise his office. The Scriptures set forth clear standards of
>>>>judgment for many offenses. Capital crimes, for example, include
>>>>premeditated killing (murder), kidnapping, sorcery, bestiality, adultery,
>>>>homosexuality, and cursing one's parents..."
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> "In contemporary American jurisprudence, none of these offenses is
>>>>punishable by death, with the occasional exception of murder. The
>>>>magistrates have dispensed with God's standards of justice. Some
>>>>Christians
>>>>believe this is an improvement. They would be horrified to think that the
>>>>"harsh" penalties of the law should still be applied. Sometimes this is
>>>>the
>>>>result of the mistaken belief that the Old Testament has no further
>>>>application after the advent of Christ. This is an exegetical problem. Too
>>>>often, it is the result of a sinful view of the criminal. This sin is
>>>>called pity."
>>>>
>>>> "If your brother, the son of your mother, your son or your daughter,
>>>>the wife of your bosom, or your friend who is as your own soul, secretly
>>>>entices you, saying, "Let us go and serve other gods,". . . you shall not
>>>>consent to him or listen to him, nor shall your eye pity him, nor shall
>>>>you
>>>>spare him or conceal him; but you shall surely kill him..." [Heresy:
>>>>Beware, ye not of the cult (including unconverted Jews)!]
>>>>
>>>> "If two men fight together, and the wife of one draws near to rescue
>>>>her husband from the hand of the one attacking him, and puts out the hand
>>>>and seizes him by the genitals, then you shall cut off her hand; your eye
>>>>shall not pity her..."
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> God commands the judge to evaluate the crime rather than the
>>>>criminal.
>>>>If the crime is one for which God requires death, then death must be the
>>>>punishment. Your eye shall not pity. Neither is the repentance of the
>>>>accused relevant to the imposition of the sentence.
>>>>
>>>> "Thus, the Bible teaches that pity is not an option where God has
>>>>decided the matter. The [civil] magistrate, God's minister, is to
>>>>faithfully execute justice according to God's standard, not man's... This
>>>>means that we must return to an obedience which confines pity within the
>>>>bounds which God has established for us."
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: Dick Sherwin
>>>> To: Vision2020 ; Paul Rumelhart
>>>> Sent: Thursday, August 10, 2006 8:51 AM
>>>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] You might be a real American
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Paul Rumelhart wrote: "Your standards are too low. How about you
>>>>are
>>>>a True American if the ideas of freedom and liberty for all are important
>>>>to you? That includes the freedom to believe whatever religion you wish,
>>>>or none at all."
>>>> ___________________________________________
>>>>
>>>> Personally, I am a little weary of embracing the "whatever religion
>>>>you wish" syndrone. I agree, everyone should have the right to worship as
>>>>they believe, so long as their religion does not preach death and
>>>>destruction on others because of their beliefs. I am tired of the
>>>>so-called "Religion of Peace" and their attempts to acquire maximum kill
>>>>with their terrorist acts.
>>>>
>>>> As I said in my original post,
>>>> "I believe this is apporpriate as well as accurate. I realize there
>>>>are those who don't believe in any of this but to them all I have to say
>>>>is, "Oh well!"
>>>>
>>>> May God bless you, even if you don't believe in Him.
>>>>
>>>> Dick S.
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: Paul Rumelhart
>>>> To: Vision2020
>>>> Sent: Thursday, August 10, 2006 8:35 AM
>>>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] You might be a real American
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> That's what it takes to be a True American? Not to be afraid to
>>>>show you are a christian? Not to burn the flag? To respect veterans and
>>>>your elders?
>>>>
>>>> Well, I almost made it. I'm not christian, so apparently I can't
>>>>be
>>>>a True American. Wonderful.
>>>>
>>>> Your standards are too low. How about you are a True American if
>>>>the ideas of freedom and liberty for all are important to you? That
>>>>includes the freedom to believe whatever religion you wish, or none at
>>>>all.
>>>>
>>>> If you support the First Amendment, I would say you are on the path
>>>>to being a "True American". If you care for your rights and the rights of
>>>>others equally, I'd say you are a True American. If you get enraged when
>>>>politicians "game the system", you are a True American.
>>>>
>>>> If you get angry when someone claims they are a "Patriot" when they
>>>>really mean that they blindly support the government or the status quo,
>>>>you
>>>>are a True American. Look up what it really means to be a Patriot
>>>>sometime. Start by imagining the courage it took for the Founding Fathers
>>>>to sign the Declaration of Independence and ponder what would have
>>>>happened
>>>>to each of them if the revolution had failed.
>>>>
>>>> The true values of this country are getting lost in this
>>>>"Christians
>>>>- the World's Only Persecuted Majority" crap. What values that have
>>>>managed to squeak through that mess are wantonly being pulverised by
>>>>Corporate America. I'd say the truest sign of whether or not you are a
>>>>True American is if you have had it up to here with all the crap that has
>>>>happened in the last couple of decades.
>>>>
>>>> Paul
>>>>
>>>> Dick Sherwin wrote:
>>>> I believe this is apporpriate as well as accurate. I realize
>>>>there are those who don't believe in any of this but to them all I have to
>>>>say is, "Oh well!"
>>>>
>>>> Dick S.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> It is time to change from REDNECK humor to TRUE AMERICAN
>>>>Humor! Only I don't see it as Humor, but the correct way to LIVE YOUR
>>>>LIFE ! If you feel the same, pass this on to your True American
>>>>friends.
>>>> Ya'll know who ya' are...
>>>>
>>>> You might be a TRUE AMERICAN if: It never occurred to you to
>>>>be
>>>>offended by the phrase, "One nation, under God."
>>>>
>>>> You might be a TRUE AMERICAN if: You've never protested about
>>>>seeing the 10 Commandments posted in public places.
>>>>
>>>> You might be a TRUE AMERICAN if: You still say "Christmas"
>>>>instead of "Winter Festival."
>>>>
>>>> You might be a TRUE AMERICAN if: You bow your head when someone
>>>>prays.
>>>>
>>>> You might be a TRUE AMERICAN if: You stand and place your hand
>>>>over your heart when they play the National Anthem.
>>>>
>>>> You might be a TRUE AMERICAN if: You treat Viet Nam vets with
>>>>great respect, and always have.
>>>>
>>>> You might be a TRUE AMERICAN if: You've never burned an
>>>>American
>>>>flag.
>>>>
>>>> You might be a TRUE AMERICAN if: You know what you believe and
>>>>you aren't afraid to say so, no matter who is listening.
>>>>
>>>> You might be a TRUE AMERICAN if: You respect your elders and
>>>>expect your kids to do the same.
>>>>
>>>> You might be a TRUE AMERICAN if: You'd give your last dollar to
>>>>a friend.
>>>>
>>>> If you got this email from me, it is because I believe that you,
>>>>like me, have just enough TRUE AMERICAN in you to have the same
>>>>beliefs as those talked about in this email.
>>>>
>>>> God Bless the U S A ! and may the U.S.A. BEGIN TO PRAISE
>>>>AND
>>>>WORSHIP GOD the way we used to!!!
>>>>
>>>>
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>>>
>>>
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>>>> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
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>>>>
>>>_________________________________________________________________
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>>
>>
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>
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