[Vision2020] Minimum wage

[Joe Campbell]

Donovan,

This puts me over the limit but I wanted to note that I haven't said whether I'm in favor of raising the minimum wage or against it. I've just been commenting on some of the arguments against it which strike me as bad arguments.

I am no economist but I guess the costs of paying people a living wage would have to be picked up by someone, so it stands to reason that prices would rise and so would inflation. 

Of course, prices will rise eventually anyway, so this can't be the only factor worth considering. I think I heard someone say that the minimum wage has not risen in over 15 years (or something like that). What was the inflation rate during that time? I'm certain it was not zero. So there are a lot of factors involved here.

Also, I for one would be glad to pay more for goods and services if I knew that all workers received a living wage. I don't have a problem with that.

--
Joe Campbell

---- Donovan Arnold <donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com> wrote: 

=============
Joe,
  
  Would you at least concede that raising the minimum wage would cause inflation?
  
  Best,
  
  _DJA

Joe Campbell <joekc at adelphia.net> wrote:  I was just asking a question, Tony. If I messed up the details of Chevy's argument, he can always tell me where I went wrong.

Best, Joe

---- Tony Simpson  wrote: 

=============
OH LIGHTEN UP old logic professor Joe. Chevy's reasoning in his minimum wage 
post was crisp and insightful and deserving of more than terse and 
condescending smuggery from you.

FYI Chevy, Joe has a penchant for paraphrasing the argument of another in an 
absurd and self serving way, then demanding that they defend themselves for 
a position they never took.  It can become terribly tedious.

Best to you both,  --Tony
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Joe Campbell" 
To: "J Chevy" 
Cc: 
Sent: Saturday, August 05, 2006 7:36 PM
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Minimum wage


> Chevy,
>
> I just want to make sure that I have the structure of your argument 
> correct. As far as I can tell, it is this:
>
> 1) Here is a crazy idea: Suppose we raise the minimum wage to $100 per 
> hour.
> 2) That won't work.
> 3) Therefore, it is crazy to raise the minumum wage.
>
> Is that your argument?
>
> As of yet this fallacy has no name. On the other hand, it doesn't need 
> one!
>
> Best, Joe
>
> ---- J Chevy  wrote:
>
> =============
> “Everywhere is freaks and hairies
> Dykes and fairies, tell me where is sanity
>  Tax the rich; feed the poor
>  Till there are no rich no more...”
>
>  Interpret the above as you will.
>
>  Now, in the purest democrat fashion…
>
>  Hey, I got a grand idea; let’s skip all the non-livable wage propositions 
> and raise the minimum wage in Idaho to $100.00 per worker per hour worked. 
> Skilled, unskilled, college educated, black, white, green, position in 
> society, blue collar, white collar, high or low intelligence, no matter. 
> Better yet, assign everyone identical salaries. We are all equal, right? 
> Why shouldn’t we deserve the same pay?  Does any among us think that they’re 
> better than the other?  Maybe our government should just handle all the 
> finances in the United States--issue us all an identical check every 
> Monday.  Shoot, why do we even need money?  Or property?  Or the right to 
> have a say in the political arena for that matter? (Socialized medicine, 
> at this point, is a no-brainer.)  Shant we all fulfill out own niche to 
> society and one big utopia will result?  Aw, community, egalitarianism, I 
> love it!  Mind you, we need bums, losers, drug addicts, illegal aliens, 
> derelicts, miscreants, hippies,
> gypsies, and environmentalists just as we need doctors, engineers, 
> teachers, attorneys, chemists, military personnel, law enforcement, and 
> authors.  We are all equal, we simply play our own and unique role in the 
> societal hub. True? We are all dependant on each other for survival.  The 
> drive to earn a bigger wage and live more affluently is no motivation to 
> better oneself—or the country for that matter.  Perhaps the ailing Castro, 
> Putin, Ill, Hu, or the ghost of Lenin or Marx could help with the 
> logistics and implementation of this socioeconomic bit of brilliance. It’s 
> a noble idea. It will be tough in the beginning. We will have to start on 
> a small-scale basis. The first experimental community could be called, 
> say, the Socialist Republic of Moscow. Next, when we have successfully 
> worked out the bugs, we could fan out to neighboring areas, then to the 
> entire state.  How’s the People’s Republic of Idaho sound?  Catchy, huh? 
> Apropos, I’m suddenly having a deja vu.
>
>  Not funny, you say? Remember the natural progression, according to Marx, 
> that Nations typically take? The US is knee deep in Socialism already. The 
> last step is communism…and, as we all know, it’s track record is flawless.
>
>  Performance, specialization, and supply/demand should dictate salary.. 
> When all is said and done, no one will work for (or pay) the ridiculous. 
> There should be no minimum wage, whatsoever.  Just think, and I’m not 
> totally a free market wing nut..
>
>  But, let’s say our socialist, Idahoan quixotes have their way and manage 
> to get the minimum wage raised to say, $8.00, the highest in the nation. 
> Can any of you, without any other state contributions, survive on that? 
> Doubtful. So, what then? $9.00? 10.00? 15.00 per hour?
>
>  The answer is to eliminate the minimum wage altogether (and oust the 
> aliens that’ll work for next-to-nothing).  Any person left who wants 
> something for themselves or their family will do what it takes to climb 
> the ladder. ‘Cause ‘meritocracy and the American Dream’ ain’t no riddle, 
> man; to me, it makes good good sense. Good sense.
>
>  J
>
>
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